Missing Fonts

[_bilglas_]

There are fonts installed on my system, which are available in Word, CorelDraw, and other applications, but they do NOT show up, at all, in the fonts list of ANY CS2 application ... InDesign, Photoshop or Illustrator. This situation might be true of OTHER fonts, but the only ones I'm conscious of are the basic four variations of Arial Narrow, and Arial Black. (Arial Black Oblique is ALSO installed, and it IS available.)

These EXACT SAME fonts WERE available in Adobe applications, as long as I was using XP. Now that I've switched to Vista, they've ceased to function.

I've tried reinstalling these fonts and rebooting. What else can I do?

Thanks!

bilglas

[_Cathleen_Abers-Kimball_]

No still on XP (and glad of it)

[_bilglas_]

I got the hotfix, I've follow Robert Levine's instructions, and YES, things are, now, as they should be! So thanks to Robert and Microsoft for that (although I still agree with Cathleen that the responsibility should've been Adobe's, but why point fingers?)

BUT: Why isn't there an OpenType font for Arial Black Italic? What's up with that? As it happens, in my case, it's a moot question, because I still have an old TrueType version of Arial Black Italic installed, and it IS available as an entirely separate font choice. (That is, I've got the NINE variations of OpenType Arial available from ARIAL, but I've also got the TrueType Arial Black Italic available from ARIAL BLACK.) Just wondering, though, why Black Italic isn't part of the latest Arial family? I couldn't find an answer online ... anybody know?

Bill

[BobLevine]

You'd need to ask Microsoft that. It's their font.

Bob

[Ildhund]

It's a Monotype font:
http://www.fonts.com/FindFonts/mondosearchresults.htm?kid=arial+black+italic&st=12

Yours for all of £19 in Britain.
--
Noel

[_bilglas_]

What you're forgetting, Noel, is that converting £19 into U.S. money comes to about $700 billion...... ;-)

Bill

[_Dominic_Hurley_]

>I do not have Office o7 on my Computer, I am still on 03.

But what version of Arial Narrow do you have? It could have been updated with a Windows SP or with some other update.

>I do not believe it is a Microsoft issue ...

So why did Microsoft issue a fix for it then? Or are they covering for Adobe for some nefarious purpose?

>I have had enough "yeah, just run this simple patch" "solutions" cause issues in my computers over the years.

So, do a system restore if it doesn't work. But don't expect a lot of sympathy if you're not prepared to take the advice offered.

[Dov Isaacs]

To tie up some loose ends, the basic problem was that Microsoft released some versions of Arial Narrow with defective information in the names fields internal to the font. These names are of signficance to the Adobe applications (or any application that cares about proper typography). These malformed fonts came with Office 2007 and possibly various other updates to Windows and other versions of Office

Adobe couldn't "fix" the problem becuase the fonts came from Microsoft.

The Microsoft hot fix simply replaces the defective versions of Arial Narrow with corrected versions. However, after running the Microsoft hot fix, you also need to manually delete all file names of the form Adobefnt##.lst where ## is a one or two digit number. After that, the Arial Narrow fonts register correctly.

- Dov

[_Dominic_Hurley_]

Dov

The only thing that isn't clear to me is that a couple of people have reported Arial Narrow appearing correctly in CS2 but not CS3. Is this something you have been able to duplicate? If so, why does this occur? Is CS3 more picky about fonts than CS2?

[_duckmiester_]

Ok so I have fixed this problem.

The Arial Narrow fonts were version 2.37

I grabbed the fonts from one of our servers and this version was 2.35

So i deleted the v2.37 fonts

Then deleted the AdobeFnt##.lst files

Installed the old v2.35 fonts from the server

Also copied the fonts to
C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe InDesign CS3\Fonts
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Fonts

Restarted Adobe InDesign and this fixed the issue.

The above solution fixed the Windows XP 64-bit problems with CS3

I don't know how I got version 2.37 fonts when I don't have Office 2007.

The only thing I can think of is Windows XP SP3 or some Windows Update?

[BobLevine]

Could well be that that's the version that shipped with XP64. Just a guess.

Bob

[_Cathleen_Abers-Kimball_]

I am one of those reporting that the Arial narrow problem is not present in InDesign CS2 where the Arial Narrow family is a stand alone with ital, bold, & bold ital as font variants. In InDesign CS3 the Arial Narrow family is gone and instead Airal Narrow appears under Arial as a variant but the ital, bold, & bold ital are not available for Arial Narrow.

Here is the reason for my reluctance to "fix" a supposed Microsoft problem. If I were to do so and the problem was actually what all common sense would indicate, the result in a change that Adobe made between the issue of Indesign CS2 & CS3, and the "fix" made it so these fonts were not available in CS2 I would have a world of work ahead of me when performing what would otherwise be minor updates to older files.

[BobLevine]

Then there's not much anyone else can offer you. You've been told it's a
Microsoft issue. Microsoft has issued a fix.

There are issues on the Mac side with Leopard and the same thing is
going on over there. "It's only InDesign so it must be Adobe's problem."

The only difference is that Microsoft has fixed the issue and Apple is
"still working on it."

At some point, that hotfix MS issued will be rolled out in a Windows
Update anyway. You might just as well do it now.

Bob

[_Kenneth_Benson_]

> Here is the reason for my reluctance to "fix" a supposed Microsoft
> problem.

Here is the reason that you won't get the problem fixed until you
overcome your reluctance:

> Adobe couldn't "fix" the problem becuase the fonts came from
> Microsoft.

(quoting Dov Isaacs)

It's pretty easy to avoid using Arial Narrow (or any other Arial)
completely (thus solving the problem without actually fixing it).
Helvetica Narrow uses the same glyph widths. In fact, if you're printing
to a Postscript printer, it's very likely you're substituting Helvetica
Narrow for Arial Narrow anyway.

--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

[Dov Isaacs]

I hope you are not implying that Arial Narrow is somehow automatically substituted by Helvetica Narrow when printing to a PostScript printer. Neither InDesign nor PostScript printers work that way. You would explicitly need to convert your InDesign document to use Helvetica Narrow and you would need to have the Helvetica Narrow fonts installed on your system running InDesign!

- Dov

[_Kenneth_Benson_]

I was implying that the printer driver (not the printer) substitutes
device fonts unless told not to. I'm referring to that line buried deep
in the driver that says "Truetype Font: Substitute with Device Font"
until you change it to "Truetype Font: Download as Softfont".

My personal experience seeing evidence of this is many years, OSs, and
DTP apps old, so I'd be happy to believe this is no longer the case. If
so, what does "Substitute with Device Font" mean these days?

--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

[Dov Isaacs]

Nope, that substitution absolutely does not happen with any Adobe CS applications printing via any printer driver. These applications generate their own PostScript except for device control "setpagedevice" operators.

And by the way, we do consider that driver option to be very dangerous when used with other applications given that there are in fact many differences between Microsoft's workalike TrueType fonts and the printer resident fonts. At Adobe, we routinely advise users to change that option to "download as softfont" to avoid problems.

- Dov

[_Kenneth_Benson_]

Thanks, Dov, I stand corrected.

--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

[_Cathleen_Abers-Kimball_]

This is all very interesting but, can anyone tell me why the same font set behaves differently in InDesign CS2 than in InDesign CS3 using the same computer and the same, supposedly in need of "fixing" font set? This is what is confusing to me. And as far as just switching to another font, I am talking about documents that go back several years many updated yearly, many with large areas of small (arial narrow) text. A subsitiuted font would be nothing less than a nightmare when you think of all the width & spacing adjustments which were made to fit text to space.

[_Dominic_Hurley_]

>Can anyone tell me why the same font set behaves differently in InDesign CS2 than in InDesign CS3 ...?

Are you using them both at the same time (ie, you open IDCS2, Arial Narrow appears correctly, then you open IDCS3 and it doesn't)? Or are you saying it used to work fine in CS2 but now you have only CS3 on your PC and it doesn't work there?

If the former, I'd check the separate font folder for CS2 and see if you have an older version of Arial in there. If the latter, try the MS hot fix.

>I were to do so [run the fix] and the problem was actually what all common sense would indicate, the result in a change that Adobe made between the issue of Indesign CS2 & CS3, and the "fix" made it so these fonts were not available in CS2 ...

First off, to everyone else here (and to Microsoft), common sense indicates the problem is a Microsoft issue. Secondly, why would installing a corrected version of Arial Narrow make Arial Narrow unavailable in CS2? I can't see how that could possibly follow, but if you're so worried, just keep a copy of your existing Arial Narrow fonts before you run the fix. I really don't know why you won't apply the patch. It's like you don't want the problem fixed so that you can continue to blame Adobe for it.

[_duckmiester_]

Some of us can't apply the "hot fix" provided by Microsoft because it's not applicable to us.

The "Hot Fix" is only compatible with Office 2007. Apparently if you have Office 2007 then you will have this issue.

I was having this issue and I don't even have Office 2007.
- I'm running Office 2003.

Microsoft don't have a fix available for users running into this problem with Office 2003.

The only thing I can think of is that the fonts got updated to v2.37 with Windows XP SP3 for the 32-bit operating systems.

And with the machines running Windows XP 64-bit SP2, it must have shipped with v2.37

For anyone who doesn't have Office 2007 and can't apply the fix, because it doesn't do anything I have the older font versions (v2.35) here which I can e-mail you to fix this issue.

Remember that Adobe CS3 doesn't support running on Windows XP SP3
- it works but Adobe said users have had huge amounts of issues with the compatibility and bugs. I guess Adobe are working on this.

Adobe CS3 also doesn't support running on Windows XP 64-bit

[Peter Spier]

>Remember that Adobe CS3 doesn't support running on Windows XP SP3
- it works but Adobe said users have had huge amounts of issues with the compatibility and bugs. I guess Adobe are working on this.

Where are you getting this information? I haven't seen any announcement regarding incompatibility, nor are we seeing "huge amounts" of problems that are attributed to SP3. There are some reported issues, frequently printing-related, that may be caused by SP3, and a confirmed issue regarding an inability to open Pagemaker files after installing SP3, but not even dozens of posts, let alone huge amounts, and many of them can't be confirmed as update related.

I personally am not upgrading to SP3, partly because I don't want to make trouble for CS3 or earlier versions, but mostly because, as far as I can tell, it doesn't include anything I find useful other than the security updates which I've been downloading and installing right along.

Peter

[_duckmiester_]

I have been informed by Adobe support about this.

The support person pretty much told me to stay on SP2 if possible. I refuse to do this though.

I've personally only really run into this font issue. Whether it's caused by SP3 i'm not 100% sure yet. I'll need to check a machine with SP2 to see if it has the different font version.

Plus i've run into a few issues, but i'm pretty sure these problems are prior to SP3

Just thought I would let you know what they told me.

[_Dominic_Hurley_]

>The "Hot Fix" is only compatible with Office 2007.

I may be wrong, but I don't see why this would be so; the hot fix just corrects the wrong entries in the Arial Narrow fonts. I'm not sure if it just installs new versions of the fonts or corrects fonts in situ, but I don't think you have to have Office 2007 installed - just the fonts.

[_duckmiester_]

If you read the "hot fix" instructions you will see that this update only applies to office 2007.

Plus i tried it anyway and it says that your system is not affected by this hot fix. meaning it doesn't do anything because it doesn't have office 2007.

I then checked the versions after a restart and they didn't change.

[_Dominic_Hurley_]

>If you read the "hot fix" instructions you will see that this update only applies to office 2007.

I have read the instructions and they say "There are no prerequisites for installing this hotfix." Yes, Microsoft Office Professional 2007, Microsoft Office Standard 2007, Microsoft Office Enterprise 2007, Microsoft Office Basic 2007, and Microsoft Office Professional Plus 2007 are listed, but that's because they contained the problem fonts. The fix affects the fonts, not the apps.

You ran the fix then restarted, but did you rebuild your Adobe font cache mechanism? That is an important step and you don't mention doing it.