PDF export for flattened and uncoated to printer

[robink40059613]

This used to be a function now it's not. I need to export pages for uncoated paper (US Web uncoated v2) without changing the black text to 4C and have the file flattened. So far no luck, any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks!

[BobLevine]

Use PDF/X-1a and then find another printer that can take PDF/X-4.

[robink40059613]

I am the printer. I used the PDF/X-4 with the uncoated profile, it still will not convert to under 260%.

[rob day]

Hi Bob, PDF/X-4 does not prevent total ink violations. A document can have CMYK colors, or blending modes that exceed the desired limit, and a default PDF/X-4 or PDF/X-1a export would not change the output values.

[BobLevine]

Yes, of course, but my concern was 100% black being converted to four-color. Given the original post, there was no way to know what the OP had already tried.

[rob day]

A valid PDF/X-4 export could also convert black-only CMYK colors to 4-color. The default PDF/X-4 and PDF/X-1a presets both export document CMYK colors including black only unchanged. The idea that PDF/X-4 will always produce a good result and PDF/X-1a will always produce a bad result is just not true.

[BobLevine]

Again, my suggestion was based on having no info at all and I wouldn't brought 1-a if I believed it would produce a bad result.

[rob day]

Hi @robink40059613 , Is US Web Uncoated assigned to the InDesign document—check Edit>Assign Profiles... not Color Settings?

Do you have Document CMYK set as the PDF/X-1a Output Destination (the Destination does not conflict with the document’s assigned profile)?

Is the color you are expecting to be limited to 260% either RGB or a placed CMYK asset with a conflicting profile? Total ink is only limited on a color conversion—you could make a document CMYK build that exceeds 260% and it would not change on an Export to Document CMYK.

Also are you using any Blending Modes that darken e.g. Multiply or Darken?

[robink40059613]

in Edit>Assign Profiles no but I've tried that using the uncoated profile there still not working correctly.

Yes using the PDF/X=1a and the final pdf file needs to be under 260% so as not to plug in on press.

I'm not using any blending modes. I'm working with advertisers ad files that need to be converted on a whole to uncoated without changing the black text to 4C.

[rob day]

If you are Exporting to a Destination that conflicts with the document’s assigned CMYK profile and set the Output Color Conversion to Convert to Destination, CMYK black only would have to be converted to 4-color. If you choose Convert to Destination (Preserve Numbers) the native InDesign colors and swatches would be protected, but placed RGB images and CMYK images with conflicting embedded profiles would convert to the uncoated profile with the 260% total ink.

If there are placed CMYK images or objects with no embedded profile, but have a total ink that exceeds 260% those images would export unchanged.

Can you share a packaged example that is exceeding the ink limit on export?

[rob day]

I'm working with advertisers ad files that need to be converted on a whole to uncoated without changing the black text to 4C.

The usual cause would be placed CMYK links with no embedded profiles—Links listed as Document CMYK in Link Info.

Here is a CMYK file that was converted to Coated GRACoL in Photoshop. The top version has no embedded profile and the bottom has its embedded profile included. Separation Preview’s Ink Limit set to 260% flags the violations because without a profile there would be no conversion on an export and the Coated GRACoL values would export unchanged.

A PDF/X-1a export to Document CMYK or a different output profile with Convert to Destination (Preserve Numbers) would keep the top image’s total ink:

[robink40059613]

That information is all well and good but sometimes there isn't time to go back to the advertiser and unfortunately in some cases they are using Canva to create ads for Print (big NoNo!). these need to be adjusted ASAP without returning to the advertiser. So older versions of InDesign were able to convert the ads to uncoated Without changing the black text to 4C. I'm looking to see if that can be done Now, since the only way to get the files to export without icc profiles is to use the PDF/X-1a setting set to uncoated, preserve numbers. it's not working for the black text.

[rob day]

...preserve numbers. it's not working for the black text.

Just to clarify, you mean a native InDesign black CMYK 0|0|0|100 swatch or color is converting on an export with Convert to Destination (Preserve Numbers) set as the profile policy? That setting has nothing to do with total ink coverage, and wouldn’t apply to blacks in placed files, but if it is happening to native CMYK colors in a new version, I would say it is a serious bug. Any chance you can share an InDesign ad and PDF/X-1a export where this happens?

[robink40059613]

I can fix a PDF ad by re-exporting in ID to create the ad as uncoated. I'm trying to export a full page with text to uncoated. When I add 100% black type to the page and use PDF/X-1a with the uncoated setting, the placed PDF file is fine the text changes to 4C black. page attached.

[rob day]

That doesn’t happen out of CC2021. Have you tried trashing your Cache and Preferences folders? If that doesn’t work it is a fairly serious bug. I don’t have CC2024 installed so I can’t test. This is what I get:

[robink40059613]

I'm using ID 18.5 x64

[rob day]

Did you try trashing your Prefs an Caches?

[robink40059613]

yes still not working

[rob day]

Does it happen with version 19?

[robink40059613]

I don't have Version 19 yet

[robink40059613]

I just loaded Version 19 and getting the same results as 18.5 PDF's change to under 260 ink density but 100% Black text still changing to 4C.

[rob day]

Can you share your .indd file?

Sounds like a bug, but I’m surprised it hasn’t come up yet. Maybe someone with the latest version can check— Uwe @Laubender ?

[rob day]

Certainly looks like a bug–the export worked as expected in CC2021.

Have you checked using a different preset? Does it happen with PDF/X-4 or a None Standard export?:

Or

[robink40059613]

I've tried every combination and nothing seems to produce the correct configuration of uncoated and 100K text in an exported PDF.