PDF is all spans from InDesign

Report · Nov 29, 2017

Hi

I have the newest version of InDesign and Acrobat Pro, and everything was fine but then all of a sudden my print and interactive PDFs exported (with tags) and in Acrobat all I see are spans, all spans in the Order Panel and Touch Up tool. No other tags show, except in the Tags panel the tags look fine.

I uninstalled the programs, no change...still a problem.

Any ideas how to fix this?

Thanks!

L

Report · Dec 06, 2017

OK, so I was able to look at the OP's files which caused me to go back and look at some of mine. The OP is correct in that CC 2018 is incorrectly applying <span> objects to every single line of a paragraph when the content is viewed in the Contents pane or using the Touch Up Reading Order (TURO) tool. I have a message in to Adobe about this but haven't filed it as a bug quite yet.

The reality is that although it makes for messy remediation , it really isn't affecting the overall accessibility of the file. The tags are correct and if desired, you can go back using the TURO tool and reapply the appropriate tag to update the Contents pane. I haven't been able to convince myself to waste my time doing that though.

You're not doing anything wrong. This is definitely new behavior in InDesign and I would consider it a bug that we need to address. I hope that helps!

Report · Mar 29, 2018

I wrote up a bug on this and you can vote on it at InDesign User Voice. Here's the URL https://tinyurl.com/indesignspans

Report · Mar 29, 2018

Chad,

I think this is an Acrobat bug. If you expand the tags in the Tags pane and double-click them, it does update the Paragraph Style export tags in the Order pane. See below. (I can add this to the bug report if you'd like.)

Report · Mar 30, 2018

I'm not seeing this behavior Kelly. So you're just double-clicking on the tag in the Tags pane?

Report · Mar 30, 2018

Yes chad, the Tags for H1, H2, and P update in the Order panel after double-clicking on them in the Tags panel in Acrobat

Report · Mar 30, 2018

I was contacted by the InDesign team to help with this issue and now I'm thinking that it could in fact be an Acrobat issue. I say this because I've tried exporting to an accessible PDF file from InDesign as far back as CC 2014 and I'm getting the Spans in every PDF that I generate. I know I wasn't experiencing this issue that far back. So it must have been introduced in one of the Acrobat updates. I'll keep everyone posted as I get more info.

Report · Jun 08, 2018

Any resolution to the Span issue?

Report · May 15, 2019

Hi Chad,

Checking to see if there's been any follow-up with the export tags issue from InDesign to Acrobat? This has created A LOT of extra work by having to manually tag in Acrobat even though the proper tags show in the tags panel.

I'll also pose my question to the Acrobat post regarding this issue.

Don't want to switch to a different software but may be required to meet the 508 accessibility requirements.

Report · May 15, 2019

There's been no change at this point but I'm curious why you are manually tagging in Acrobat. Although the Spans are appearing in the Reading Order panel, the tags are correct. What exactly are you doing in Acrobat?

Report · May 15, 2019

Drawing rectangles around the content in each page and assigning headings 1-5 and text. Figures and tables assign appropriately when exported from InDesign to Acrobat. I have the most recent versions for both.

Per our government agreements, we are required to have all text 'showing' as appropriately tagged when the Reading Order panel is selected.

Report · May 15, 2019

Just to make sure I understand, is this the process you're using?

Export PDF from InDesign.
Open PDF in Acrobat.
Using the Order Panel and the TURO tool, select paragraphs of body text, headings, and other elements and applying the appropriate tag.

That's a lot of work!

Yes, the PDF/UA-1 standard mandates that all accessibility be via the Tags panel, not the Order panel.

As far as our firm can tell, most if not all assistive technologies have migrated to use the Tags panel so whatever is in the Order panel should not affect users. However, there is always the chance of an end user having older Braille and similar devices that still use the Order panel and no government can require a user to upgrade his/her technology.

Sec. 508 requires PDF/UA-1 as the conforming standard so all federal agencies should work with it, but Sec. 508 doesn't limit an agency from requiring items that are either not in the PDF/UA-1 standard or are their own requirements. Essentially, they can require us contractors to do whatever they state in the contract's SOW.

InDesign-UserVoice had a request to fix the problem but the InDesign team closed the issue, noting that it is an Acrobat problem, not InDesign's. See Accessible PDF Exported from ID contains SPANS in Reading Order panel – Adobe InDesign Feedback

But the Acrobat team points the blame back at the InDesign team as you can read here: Bug - PDF Tag Panel does not match Reading Order Tool by marking all Tags as Span – Share your feedb...

We're working with Adobe to tackle this annoying problem and get it fixed wherever it lies. Personally, I'm sick of the problem and the millions of dollars it's costing us contractors and government agencies worldwide.

But in the meantime, please VOTE for Adobe to correct this mess at Bug - PDF Tag Panel does not match Reading Order Tool by marking all Tags as Span – Share your feedb... Vote "early and often," as they say. Get everyone you know in the field to vote on this. We need numbers, 100+ to get this on Adobe's radar screen. You can vote anonymously if needed.

Another option is to purchase a great InDesign plugin called Made To Tag by Axaio Software. It creates a compliant PDF (Axaio is on the ISO's committee for PDF/UA accessibility standards). https://www.axaio.com/doku.php/en:products:madetotag

Report · May 15, 2019

Yes, the steps you summarized are correct, and yes, it's A LOT of work. And while the correct tags show in the Tags panel, why wouldn't they also show in Acrobat's Reading Order panel like they used to? It seems superfluous to have the Reading Order panel simply show 'Span' throughout150-250+ page documents, especially when the export settings are appropriately tagged in InDesign. As a result, we may be required to discontinue our use of Adobe products due to the extra work, which would be really disappointing and not our preference!

Report · May 15, 2019

Kim, take what you wrote above...

kims21116289 wrote
And while the correct tags show in the Tags panel, why wouldn't they also show in Acrobat's Reading Order panel like they used to? It seems superfluous to have the Reading Order panel simply show 'Span' throughout150-250+ page documents, especially when the export settings are appropriately tagged in InDesign. As a result, we may be required to discontinue our use of Adobe products due to the extra work, which would be really disappointing and not our preference!

...and put it into the UserVoice forum here: Bug - PDF Tag Panel does not match Reading Order Tool by marking all Tags as Span – Share your feedb...

And don't forget to VOTE by clicking the button. Adobe literally tallies the vote count.

This is a user tech support forum where volunteer users (you see us as ACP or MVP) help others in the field. Adobe's staff monitors the forums to ensure nothing gets out of line. But nothing in this forum goes back to the powers at Adobe that make decisions about their programs.

UserVoice is the way to complain to Adobe's decision makers and make some headway on this problem.

Report · May 15, 2019

The "tag name" that used to appear in the Reading Order panel, never really mattered anyway. Typically the importance of the Reading Order panel was to define the correct order of items for what I refer to as the "flow order" of items in the document. You can still see the order number by choosing page content order at the bottom of the Reading Order panel instead of structure types.

Report · May 16, 2019

Out of curiosity, why would the tag options be in the Reading Order panel?

Report · Jun 08, 2018

No change yet from Adobe.

The tags are fine in the tag tree, so since most assistive technologies work from the tag tree, they work fine to create an accessible PDF.

The SPAN tags are visible in the Order and Content panels, but don't seem to affect accessibility by AT.

Report · Sep 27, 2018

I agree with Bevi, that the AT will focus on the tag tree, so if the Tags are correct, it will pass the PDF/UA and WCAG 2.0 standards..

However, if you still want the RO match the Tag Tree panel, you can use the Autotag feature from Adobe DC PRO. The only downside, is that for some reason (there is another thread about this issue, this is the link if you want to see the whole issue https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2478423), when you use the Autotag, some fonts are not embedded, and even if you do the FIX from the Preflight to embeded all fonts, one font still can not be embedded (which is OK since most of them time that is Artficact, and it was not even there on the original PDF)

Just a suggestion...