Problem with flowing text into a text frame with "Type on Path"

[Shlomit Heymann]

Hello,

I have reported this issue in prerelease but recieved no answer so I decided to post it here too. (I could not remember if I did or not but couldn't find that I did).

It's been a longe time since I wanted to report this behavior (perhaps someone did), but for some reason I did not. I came to find this problem when I was working on a unique job but I will only describe the problematic part.

I created a text frame and made it's frame into "Type on Path". I then inserted a horizontal stroke with baseline shift so It will always be on the same distance from the top when I change the text frame's height. The text frame was also defined with Text Wrap (Jump to next column). I did it because there is no way to give a stroke to one side of a text box or any other graphic object (like you can do in a table cell).

The text frame was placed on a parent page, on both sides of the parent spread and was threaded (In my case from Right to Left) like this:

I then went to page 1 I loaded the text I had in another text frame on the pasteboard and shift+Clicked the frame on the first page to auto flow it into these frame I created in the Paren Spread. InDesign didn't recognize that they are threaded in 2 ways:

1. The text flew into the first frame but then it flew into the type on path area.

2. InDesign flew the text only to the Right side pages and ignored that the text frame was threaded.

When a text frame is set with "Type on Path" area,  InDesign prefers to flow the loaded text into that area and will ignore the threaded text frame.

I hope I managed to explain it as I find it a bit complicated.

I did a test on a Right to Left document and also on a Left to Right document and found the same behavior but I only tested in on my Middle Eastern version. 

I also created a video that shows what I was doing.

Can you create this behavior too?

Thank you,

Shlomit

[Eugene Tyson]

When you first click into the text frame you can see your Text Insertion Point blinking in the top on the Path - as it selects the Text Path first.

Click again to access the Text Frame 

It will then show the Text Insertion Point blinking in the Text Area - then Paste the text

Video attached

[Shlomit Heymann]

Thank you @Eugene Tyson but it looks like you didn't follow my description of how to create the problem which is completely difeerent than what you showed me. By now the problem is confirmed to the Middle Eastern Version 2023 & 2024 in Prerelease forums.

all the best,

Shlomit

[Eugene Tyson]

I followed your instructions exactly and completely recreated it from scratch.

If you click too close to the path it will flow into the path.

You have to ensure that you have selected the Text frame and the insertion point is inserted correctly in the frame.

Then it works.

[Shlomit Heymann]

Good Morning @Eugene Tyson 

Did you also see my video?

Becuse what you did is to create a text frame on a regular page, not on a Parent spread as I did, ("The text frame was placed on a parent page, on both sides of the parent spread and was threaded (In my case from Right to Left) like this:") and then you put the insert point inside the text box and used "Fill with placeholder text" and this works for me too but this is not the problem.  

The threaded Text frames should be placed on the Parent Page, you then go to page 1 and either import or load text, Shift+Click inside the text fram in order to auto flow the text (which auto realese it from the master) and only then you can see the bug (Like in my video): It will flow correctly only to the first frame and then InDesign will create more page but will flow the rest of the text into the type on path area. I watched your video and this is not what you did... You didn't place the text frame on the master and you didn't use auto flow on the pages... This is why you got a differen result then mine. 

Thank you,

Shlomit

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Shlomit Heymann 

Same on Windows, ID 19.3:

[Eugene Tyson]

I saw your video

I recreated it

Fill with placeholder or copy and paste works for me.

I'm not sure where we go from here. 

[Eugene Tyson]

Obviously I'm missing something - but it's working for me - maybe I'm doing something different

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Obviously I'm missing something - but it's working for me - maybe I'm doing something different

By @Eugene Tyson

I've done EXACTLY as @Shlomit Heymann described.

I think you are copy&pasting withing the TextFrame - not by linking from already existing TF? 

[Eugene Tyson]

So why not do it the way it works.

Ill try again.

Not really sure why

[Shlomit Heymann]

dear @Eugene Tyson you are missing the whole point of creating a text frame on master in order to flow - With Text Loaded Icon - the text into the threaded frames that you created on the parents pages.

I have 200 pages of text that I need to place (Import) and then flow it into those text frames in order for InDesign to create new pages and continue flowing the text. In order to demonstrate the problem I created a seperate text frame on the Pasteboard (which you didn't), I Loaded the text (You didn't) and "Shift click" to flow it into the text frame.  Only this way you will se the problem and this is what you're missing. 

all the best,

Shlomit

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Shlomit Heymann

If you have 200 pages - do every page will have a TextFrame in a different place / with a different height ?

[Shlomit Heymann]

@Robert at ID-Tasker In fact, I have around 7-8 text frames that each one will have a different type of text, and I will have to flow to each one of them it's text frame and after that I will need to move and take care of different heights.

I have 23 books that each one of them has around 300 pages. I need to explain the guy who will type the text how to to type it. So I want to have 7-8 Word docoment that I will flow each one of them their destinated text frame.

So I started to prepare it all and test it, and that's when I saw this problem and reported it to the Prereleas team, the bug was confirmed so I submitted a bug report.  When I find a bug I always write it here in order to help others who will encountered the problem.

thank you:)

Shlomit

[Eugene Tyson]

I'm unsure why you keep trying to use a method that doesn't work.

I thought you came here to find a solution.

I get that you think it's a bug, or maybe it's a bug I don't know. 
I wouldn't approach your situation like this - at all - I don't think anchoring a line on a path above a frame like you do is a good way to do it - although it's quite unique, and an interesting approach.

I'd use a Rule Above for the first paragraph and then another paragraph style for the next paragraph after that - which can be done via styles - Object Styles>Paragraph Styles combination - 
https://www.nobledesktop.com/learn/indesign/object-styles#:~:text=On%20the%20left%2C%20click%20on,kn...

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Out of pure curiosity I tried to figure your solution using your method - and I found a way to flow the text without encountering your problem.

Is there anything else you need help with?

When 1 method doesn't work - there are many other methods that do work.

---------

Thanks for reporting the 'bug' - but as I said, your situation is so unique I don't think many people work like that - again, I could be wrong, it's the first time in 25 years I've seen anyone take this approach.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Eugene Tyson

I don't think your idea with Paragraph Rule for 1st Paragraph in the TextFrame will work - when text is flowing between TextFrames?

[Eugene Tyson]

Should work if it's an object style on the Parent Page let me try it - I'll have to come back soon as I don't have a computer in front of me.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Should work if it's an object style on the Parent Page let me try it - I'll have to come back soon as I don't have a computer in front of me.

By @Eugene Tyson

It can't work as you don't know which ParaStyle will be at the top - body, header, numbered / bullet list, etc. 

[Eugene Tyson]

Yeh I was close with my idea off the top of my head without a computer in front of me.

I have a computer now - so here's another idea that works

Use a paragraph border at the top 

and it applies on every page - as long as all the styles has this setting and they merge - then only the very top gets the line

Works for me

Base all your styles off this one and it will work everywhere - apparently.

[Shlomit Heymann]

Hi @Eugene Tyson I still don't understand why you think the solution that you suggested is what I need. Please take this word file, which contains Lorm-Impum test over 107 pages, and show me how you can automatically flow it straight into the text box you created and that Indesign will flow it until it ends. Because I don't see how doing so with a 2 ready text boxes on 2 pages (that you showed me in your solution) will work over 200 pages without using my method.

Here is a d/l link to the Word file

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/p51km5t4ki97hhltckj5b/Lorem-Ipsum-107-Pages.docx?rlkey=ka7qjxinqrp913...

As for your comment "I thought you came here to find a solution.", I didn't find the need to explain why I need it to workk like this, I jsut wanted to confirm this behaviour after it was recognized as a bug by the Adobe Prerelease team. I wanted to write it here, in the forums, so if anyone else that it's happeining to thim will be able to see that someone already reported this problem. I'm participating in the Adobe Prerelase forum since it's begun and also before, when Adobe InDeisgn 2.0 was realeased to Middle East users, and needed beta test.

Thank you for your help,

Shlomit

[Eugene Tyson]

Set up an InDesign file for me with your exact setup - and I'll flow it no problem.

I've successfully flown the text in my InDesign file I showed earlier. 

Unless I'm missing something. 

Thanks for your patience and sticking with it - I know it's frustrating - but hopefully we can get there.

[Eugene Tyson]

I went ahead and autoflowed the text into a document threaded as you asked - it's attached 

You have to be really specific where you click when threading the frames on the Parent Page - too close to the edge of the frame and it tries to thread along the text path where the line is. 

[Shlomit Heymann]

Good Morning @Eugene Tyson , 

I now understand when the bug happens: It's the Type>Smart Text Reflow option under preferences that is turned on in your document that did the trick. By the way, I do know where I should place the cursor in order to flow the text into the correct place.

Here are my conclusion regarding this bug:

1. Under preferences, Type>Smart Text Reflow - should be turned on. Once you click on page 1, the text frame will auto released from the Parent and the text will flow correctly until it's end while adding pages to the the document.

2. If the option Type>Smart Text Reflow - is turned off, and you need to add shift to flow the text until it ends, it will create the bug: The text will flow correctly only to the first text frame you clicked on, but the rest will auto flow into the "type on path" area.

3. Whether the option Type>Smart Text Reflow - is turned on or off, adding "Shift or Alt+Shift to flow the loaded text, it will create the bug: The text will flow correctly only to the first text frame you clicked on, but the rest will auto flow into the "type on path" area.

I test it all both on yours and mine document. Same behavior (different ID version but same behavior). It's also important to remember that all my tests where done under InDesign 2023, Middle Eastern Version 18.5.3.129. I'm not sure it the same for the US version. 

I got now more details about the bug and will add it to the reported bug.

Thank you for helping me figure it out. I had no idea that it was depending on this option. I hope by the time I will have to do this work, Adobe will fixed it. 

Good day :),
Shlomit

[Eugene Tyson]

I am still unable to replicate the flow of the text into the path of the frame.

I can paste the text into Page 1 and have an overflow box. 

Then click the overflow box to load the cursor 
Then add a bunch of pages

Zoom out so you can see all pages

Then ALT Click (windows) and click on each frame while holding Alt and all the frames fill with text.

But no matter what I do I can't get it to flow into the Path of the frame, odd that it doesn't happen for me. 

------------------

In short

Having Smart Text reflow works - so you can use that. 

As I said before the workflow is quite unusual. 

Another option might be to flow the text first - then apply the Line in the Parent Pages after the text is flowed in. 

You can then Apply the Parent Pages to the pages and the line should appear 

Before

Then applied the line to the text path on the Parent Pages

Then I Apply Parent Pages to all pages

And the line appears

[Shlomit Heymann]

@Eugene Tyson Are you using the Middle Eastern Version? The bug is there, not on a US version. I'm on 2023 as I said...

[Eugene Tyson]

No I am not installing the 2023 ME version.

I've got the 2024 International installed and not changing it for testing purposes.