Problems making a PDF from Indesign CS5

[Teddy_Boi_Toronto]

Hi friends. I have recently switched to CS5 and I find that I usually need to close the program and then reopen it before I can make a PDF. It says it is working in the background but all it does is spin without creating the PDF. Anyone else having this problem? 

TED

[Peter Spier]

Well it's too bad you listened to a robot reading from a script on the phone instead of asking real users about uninstalling old versions. Anyone here would have told you to leave the old versions in place. All versions of InDesing can live quite happily together on the same machine except if you try to install two different regionalizations of the same version (like English and ME). That's ok if the differnt regioanlizations are also different versions.

It's not too late of course. You can uninstall CS5, then reinsatll all your previous versions in chronological order and finally reinstall CS5. In your shoes, that's what I would do.

We all understand how frustrating it can be when things don't work the way we think they should (especially if that's the way they were designed to work), but ranting here doesn't do anything but make you feel a little better. It doesn't solve your problem, and it doesn't breed a lot of sympathy from those who might be able to help you.

[goanna2]

Hi Dave

Just want your opinion. For too long now I have been afraid of

responding to any posts on the web because the aggro isn't worth it,

however this time I just had to speak up. Have a look at this link and

check out the post I was reacting to - which is 5 up from where this

link takes you. It is by Hamb1e and he has a few capital letters in his

post (gasp). Goanna2 responds a few posts later and gets kicked in

passing as well.

What I would like you to gauge is the tone of the first post by Hamb1e

and the tone of Goanna2's reply.

When I say reacting - I mean reacting to how he was treated.

xxxx Eliz

[Peter Spier]

Who's Dave? your post is in response to mine.

Just for clarification, since perhaps you haven't read this entire thread, either, the whole thing has been about identifying and solving a problem with background export. It's a known problem, and it has been addressed as far as the problem has been able to be diagnosed. It appears there are still some other, differernt, issues that may be trigger background export failure, but so far Matthew has not told us that he has been able to isolate any for sure. That doesn't mean he isn't trying or that he hasn't actually found some new problem and a solution is in the testing phase.

Ranting is non-productive. This is a user forum, not tech support (and ranting at tech support isn't prodcutive, either), but in this thread we are fortunate to have Matthew's attention and participation. Yes, I called Hamb1e on the rant, and he apologized in the next repsonse. If he is able to provide meaningful clues about the file and steps being taken before the crashes, it's possible one of us can offer some help, and yes, we do offer help. I see you've posted before and recieved some advice, so you know this.

I really am sorry you uninstalled your previous versions. That's not the fault of anyone here, and it can be fixed. Evidently you've been having some problems for quite a while, but rather than try to solve them you've concluded that Adobe has produced defective software and it's easier to do nothing. The software is far from perfect, but for 99% of users it works just as advertised, and most problems turn out to be relatively easy to solve, but only if you describe them in enough detail for diagnosis. I'm not trying to kick you now, and I wasn't kicking you earlier. I'm trying to explain that getting help here is a two-way street.

I never saw a single problem converting my own legacy files to CS5 in the first six months or so that I used the program, but there is enough anecdotal evidence here on the forum to convince me that there can be issues in CS5 that were not seen in previous versions when opening legacy files directly, and that sometimes those issues are not apparent until the file has been significantly altered. Sometimes exporting the file to .idml will cure these problems, but sometimes not. Almost always the same file, exported to .inx from the original version, tuns out to be trouble-free. In light of this, and because it is "cheap insurance," I now export all files I intend to update from their original versions as a matter of course, and I recommend other users do the same, but it means you must leave your old versions in place or reinstall them. ID must be installed in chronological order (as I mentioned in a previous post), so if you need to reinstall the old versions, you must uninstall CS5 first.

[goanna2]

What a nightmare scenario. A mis-click of the omg variety. I wanted to

get independent opinion as to whether I had misread the tone of the posts.

I have been having trouble for a while but reverting to CS4 is not

something I really want to do. I enjoy the benefits of CS5 too much to

give it away for a glitch that I can work around - using the script from

InDesign Secrets is one way, adjusting my working habits is another.

I apologise unreservedly for causing a ruckus, and I appreciate the

trouble you have taken with me. One thing I haven't tried is to export

my CS5 files as indl and then reopen them.

[Peter Spier]

Well I really do aplologize if you felt offended or picked upon.

As far as going back to CS4, I wouldn't do that either, but I wholeheartedly recommend you go through the pain of reinstalling it, and CS3 if you have that, too. I keep versions going all the way back to 2.0 for working with legacy files and doing conversions for other users, but seldom open anything older than CS3 these days. Yes it will be a major pain in the neck, but in the long run it will be much better going forward. As I think I said, exporting a problem file in CS5 after conversion is not nearly as reliable as exporting the orginal before conversion. The procedure, in case you are not familiar, is described in Remove minor corruption by exporting. Also, I think Matthew has described earlier in this thread a few things you can try regarding the export problem in addition to switching to foreground export.

You'll also have the ability to leave a file in the original version when making minor changes, should you want to do that. I'm doing a second edition of a fairly long book for a client now, for example, and I'm leaving it in CS4 so I don't have to worry about text reflow except where I'm editing.

I saw in one of your posts from a few months ago that one of your problems was with panels not displaying content, I think. That's a symptom of corrupt preferences, which can cause all sorts of other strange behavior as well. Have you had a look at Replace Your Preferences? Your next question would logically be why prefs get damaged inthe first place, and I can't answer that one -- too many variables. Some people have trouble once a month, others no more often than once every couple of years. Crashing would be a possible cause, though, as well as an effect of corrupt prefs. If you find yourself replacing them every few days, or even once a week though, I'd be suspicous of some sort of software conflict onthe machine, or maybe a bad font.

[ChrisH94]

Peter - I saw in a previous mail your suggestion of reinstalling CS4 to help with older files, but that it had to

go in before CS5 and thus the latter should be uninstalled first as they have to be loaded in the correct order. Makes sense.

In my case, it's a newly built computer so CS5 is a clean install (or else my older software would still be on it as I don't uninstall it). But, to put in CS4 Indesign must the whole Creative Suite be uninstalled, or only the CS5 Indesign component? The latter might happen, but I can't see me removing the whole suite ...

[Peter Spier]

For InDesign I would suspect it could be done with just the single application, but I'm not sure -- never had to try. But this is another one of those cases where I would probably go with the more painful approach and wipe it all, then install everything agian clean, just so you know it's all in a known good state.

Of course, I have a thing for pain...

[claidheamdanns]

Unfortunately, I would have to agree with Peter (I say unfortunately, because I don't like pain, but I believe he is right). We just had to do the same with my boss' computer.

We DID back everything up on Time Machine first. And at Peter's suggestion, we did NOT choose the install from Time Machine option, but we did retain all the files on Time Machine, in case there was something we would need back again.

The computer runs like a brand new computer now, and no more crashes in CS5.

We also had to reinstall CS4, because Acrobat Pro came with CS4, but not CS5 (at least not on the discs we received from Adobe). And we DID have to install the whole suite, in order to get Acrobat to install (perhaps because Acrobat is dependent on at least one other app in the suite in order to enter the licensing — you cannot enter the licensing directly within Acrobat).

[MatthewLaun]

@ChrisH94, and anyone else how has a consistently reproducible PDF export failure,

If you can provide me with the files and steps to reproduce a failure, I'll get the issue investigated by the ID development team. We know we've found and fixed one defect in this area of multi-threading PDF export [allowing it to proceed in the background], but it seems clear there are others. The more samples I can get, the better our chances of finding a trend and solving for more than one unique case. If less than 100mb, post on SendNow.adobe.com, else use your favorite file sharing site, then send me a private message with the URL.

Sincerely,

Matthew

[suzyq011]

Hey Matthew,

   I'll gladly send you one of my files. It's one that was created in CS5 but I tried CS3, CS4, and CS5 to make a PDF. It has crashed (froze-up) all three versions. These versions were on different machines even. I will upload to AdobeSendNow if you tell me what email I should use for you. Thanks for all of your help!

[MatthewLaun]

I got a reproducible failure case. It, like the case we fixed in 7.0.3, involves preflight. Disabling preflight, restarting the application, then exporting the document works. For anyone who hasn't tried that yet in a reproducible failure case, give it a try and report your results. I'm hopeful that the root cause of the case I have now logged with engineering, will be uncovered, and resolved in a future update.

Matthew

[Thomas Dearie]

Hi Matthew

We and our affiliates tried the suggestion of turning off preflight and restarting some time ago and it had no effect. We're also on 7.0.3.

Our experience is that, the longer and more complicated the document is, the more likely it will crash on background export. If the document crashes ID on export, it does so every time. If the document crashes on PDF export, it also crashes on export to IDML, so we can't port the doc back to CS4.The only thing that stops the problem is forcing PDF export to the foreground.

We're now working in CS4 full time. If we had a way to direct save to CS4 from CS5, we could work in CS5 except where we got a problem. But, with no down-save option, we're stuck with avoiding CS5 entirely.

Appreciate the efforts. Hope to see an update soon.

Tom

[jdnorman]

Tom -

My team has the same issues regarding long documents, and any that crash during PDF export in the background also crash when exporting idml files, which would allow the document to be read in CS4 and a PDF made. We wrote a simple applescript that we're now running that has worked in every case, which you might try -

tell application "Adobe InDesign CS5"

tell active document

export format InDesign markup to choose file name with prompt "Save file as:"

end tell

end tell

Simply have the desired document open in InDesign, then run that applescript. It has worked for us, and is our only workaround.

(Oh, and obviously this is a Mac-only solution.)

[Thomas Dearie]

Thanks JD

That could prove useful. What app are you using to write and execute the script?

We can export PDFs from IDCS5 by adding the documents to a book and export from that, but (I think) this precludes us from exporting page ranges.

As it is, we're in a 1,000 page book project and we're playing it safe and doing the job in CS4. We'll come back to CS5 when and if there's an update that allows us to turn off background ripping, or when there's and end to reports of problems.

Cheers

Tom

[jdnorman]

Tom -

The script for exporting an idml file out of CS5 was written and is executed in Applescript, and has seemed to work for us rather well.

I would also really encourage everyone to grab the javascript written by user Uwe Laubender here:

http://indesignsecrets.com/forum/general-indesign-topics/pdf-export-problems-with-cs5

it can be run via the scripts panel in InDesign CS5 and forces PDF export in the foreground, which has worked in every case in which background exporting crashed/hung/failed for our team of 8 designers. It's been our studio's lifesaver since upgrading to CS5 and is the only way we can get PDFs to export reliably. Read that thread carefully for directions - very easy to execute.

-Josh

[MatthewLaun]

@Tom,

If you have a reproducible failure case that happens even when Preflight is disabled, then our current investigations are not likely to address it. Can you provide me with the file? The links and images shouldn't be necessary to reproduce it, but please test that first to ensure we're comparing apples to apples.

Sincerely,

Matthew

[PamShoulder]

I subscribed to this thread to try and assist an old client of mine living

in the Middle East. Their problem is still not sorted - but I can't help

thinking that non of my clients in SA have experienced these nightmares -

could regional differences in the software possibly explain some of these

issues?

[Thomas Dearie]

@Tom,

If you have a reproducible failure case that happens even when Preflight is disabled, then our current investigations are not likely to address it. Can you provide me with the file

Thanks Matthew

I'll try to squeeze some time on the weekend to find and prep a sample file.

In general though, we've stopped putting time and money into the problem and are just hunkering down with CS4 until we get a CS5 update that allows us to turn off background ripping. We're very happy with CS4.

I just answer the occasional e-mail here to give relevant info to other users so they don't feel so alone.

One thing I'd really like to see though, is a communication by Adobe about what the plan is to deal with this. If we know where Adobe is going, we can plan accordingly and save ourselves a lot of time and trouble.

Cheers

Tom

[Laubender]

@Matthew Laun

As InDesign CS5.5 is on the horizon, can we expect a new bug fix round for InDesign CS5?
A version 7.0.4 that adresses the known issues with PDF export?

Uwe

[ChrisH94]

An excellent question. I don't intend to upgrade to the .5 version, as from what I've seen so far it doesn't offer me enough incentive to do so. But if the bug is not fixed in the current CS5 (as opposed to fixing it in 5.5) I'll be most upset. It's cost me around eight work days in time seeking workarounds, trying to fix it and rebuilding templates in CS4, and I've now reverted to CS4 in frustration.

That reversion was interesting though. The CS5 installation was on a clean, new computer so CS4 was not present. I thought I'd try loading it (Indesign alone), without removing CS5 (having seen reports that they had to be installed in the correct order). It went in fine (demanding to add Bridge CS4, which wasn't wanted) and both it and CS5 work without problems, and no reloading CS5.

Chris Howes

[Peter Spier]

ChrisH94 wrote:

... both it and CS5 work without problems, and no reloading CS5.

You are extremely lucky, and I would add "so far."

[MatthewLaun]

I can tell you that we have one known cause of failure that was fixed in 7.0.3. We also have a reproducible case which is under investigation, but did not make it into CS 5.5, so I can't say when that will be addressed. However, the bulk of the failures I've seen, based on crash logs, are due to issues with Extensis's auto-activation plug-ins, and we are actively engaged with them to see if they can modify their plug-ins to account for our background PDF exporting.

Matthew

[BobLevine]

Matt,

Is this a Windows and Mac thing? I've yet to see it on Windows but I have a client on Mac who had to disable the plugin.

Bob

[MatthewLaun]

I've yet to see a Windows report. It could be Mac specific because the crash involves the Extensis plug-ins calling a progress indicator, which in turn utilizes Mac OS utility code.

Matt

[Harbs.]

If recent history is an indication, you can expect more bug fixes for CS5. There was even an official update for CS4 not to long ago and developers who have access to the rapid release program have gotten CS3 updates as recently as 4 months ago and CS4 updates as recently as 2 months ago...

FWIW, The IS a 7.0.4 update on the horizon which fixes a couple of bugs that affected me personally...

Of course, whether there will be a 7.0.5 update that will make it to the masses still remains to be seen. If there are major bugs fixed, I'd bet on yes.

Harbs