regarding High Quality PRINT to PDF, - about images in placed in InDesing as RGB

[haneadino]

Thought to hear from you regarding High Quality PRINT to PDF,  about images in RGB.
Example: You make a booklet in InDesign of 20 pages, and with a lot of images, and and some images are in RGB. And when you finish the layout and export this file to High Quality PRINT to PDF, - - I mean that InDesign converts all images to CMYK? Just thought to know, - because when we sent the file for printing, they say that most images are in RGB in the PDF file for printing.
I remember in the old days, with old versions of InDesign, then I always had to open all my RGB images in Photoshop and convert them to CMYK and then place these CMYK images into InDesign, - - but I don't think you need to do this anymore in the new versions of InDesign! - is that correct?
What PDF preset should you use so that all images are in CMYK when export it to a PDF file, which you can then send to the print house?

Thank you so much for help!!

[Derek Cross]

You should get the PDF spec from your printer. 

Most authorities nowadays recommend PDF/X-4, keeping images in RGB and flat colours and text in CMYK, selecting single pages (not spreads) and ticking Use Document Bleed Settings and tick Crop Marks in the Adobe Export Dialogue box.

[haneadino]

Thank you!

This should not be in any printer? But to a printing house.
I know everything about bleed and cut marks. But just want to know regarding the RGB images in an InDesign file. Will they be converted to CMYK when exporting to High Quality print PDF ??

just see my adobe preset: https://prnt.sc/0YFU-6Txq3w0

[rob day]

Will they be converted to CMYK when exporting to High Quality print PDF ??

No.

[rob day]

Hi @haneadino , the default High Quality preset Exports all color unchanged—Output>Color Conversion:No Color Conversion.

I would avoid that preset because its Profile Inclusion Policy is Include Tagged Source Profiles, which would export native RGB colors and images with no embedded profile as DeviceRGB (RGB with no source profile). In that case even if the printer can make a color managed conversion to the correct CMYK space at output, it will be impossible to accurately convert the DeviceRGB color because there is no source color profile.

but I don't think you need to do this anymore in the new versions of InDesign! - is that correct?

Yes, that’s right, you can make the same color managed conversions from InDesign on Export or Output by setting the Output Destination to the correct CMYK profile. This PDF/X-4 preset would convert all of the document color into my document’s assigned CMYK profile Coated GRACol:

[haneadino]

Thank you so much @rob day 

So with these DPF/X-4:2008 preset, and Color Conversion: Convert to Destioantion (cmy),  - and output profile: "Document CMYK - coated". It should be OK to sent to a printing-house? (I shall not print my self to a printer) So it will be printed as offset printing, in 4+4 color in CMYK.

What scares me are the RGB images. Whether it will be a problem when it has to be printed as an offset on a 4-color offset machine in the Printing Company.

Thank you so much for helping me

[Derek Cross]

Try some soft proofing to see how the RGB images might look when printed in CMYK.

[rob day]

 Color Conversion: Convert to Destioantion (cmy), - and output profile: "Document CMYK - coated". It should be OK to sent to a printing-house?

With that preset, the exported PDF will be all CMYK. Turn on Overprint Preview to proof the RGB color as document CMYK

The CMYK output values in the PDF depend on your document’s assigned CMYK profile—Edit>Assign Profiles.... Ideally the profile should match your printer’s press profile.

[rob day]

 Color Conversion: Convert to Destioantion (cmy), - and output profile: "Document CMYK - coated". It should be OK to sent to a printing-house?

[rob day]

With that preset, the exported PDF will be all CMYK. Turn on Overprint Preview to proof the RGB color as document CMYK

[rob day]

The CMYK output values in the PDF depend on your document’s assigned CMYK profile—Edit>Assign Profiles.... Ideally the profile should match your printer’s press profile.

[haneadino]

Oh, - I think this is SOOO difficult. I used to have Fogra 39. - should that be OK?

[rob day]

If you are expecting the offset print to match your screen soft proof—Overprint Preview displays RGB color in your document’s assigned CMYK space—the document’s CMYK profile and your OS’s Monitor profile both affect the displayed color. Have you asked your printer for a recommended profile?

[haneadino]

I got this export settings. But still the images are in RGB? why?

Yes, I was thinking of sharing this export option with you, - but do not know how to do it here?

[Derek Cross]

You can have both colour modes - RGB and CMYK -  in an InDesign document.

[haneadino]

Of course I know that!  That is not the problem. It is to export the InDesign to a pdf, - where all images will be converted to CMYK .....

[rob day]

You can have both colour modes - RGB and CMYK - in an InDesign document.

But not if the Destination is set to a CMYK profile

But still the images are in RGB? why?

How are you determining that the images are RGB? You need AcrobatPro to inspect a PDF—use Output Preview’s Object Inspector to click on the image you want to inspect:

[rob day]

Are you checking the Windows version of AcrobatPro? I’ve seen a few reports of a bug where Output Preview inspects CMYK objects + transparency as RGB. If that’s the case you might need to reinstall AcrobatPro.

[haneadino]

I have a Mac computer, and with Acrobat DC version 22.

How can I send you the export option file to you , so you can look at it?

[rob day]

Attach the PDF you exported to PDF/X-4 with a CMYK destination—you can just drag and drop it on the attachment icon below your reply.

[haneadino]

It will not allowed me to drop this kind of "joboptions" file??

[rob day]

Can you share the PDF that exported with RGB images?

For your job options, only the Output tab setup matters. It should be as below where the Destination is Document CMYK—it would be impossible for you to get RGB images with this Output tab setting:

[haneadino]

I don't want to share the pdf.

But I you can download my preset here via wetransfer : https://wetransfer.com/downloads/644d721cff63c712d0a8bed9388bd6ff20220610230222/90412f

[rob day]

Your settings do not have the Standard set to PDF/X-4, and the Color Conversion is not set to a CMYK Destination, so of course you are getting RGB color in the export. Set your Output tab to what I’m showing above.

[haneadino]

Did you download my preset? If you have, - the Printhouse gave me this preset??
And now I have this printed version with these offset machine in my hand. I think it is not as good as I saw the photos in my Mac. And have also try to print 2 of these photos at home with a Canon pro- and I think it is much better quality than the Offset print.
But the Printhouse said to me: We can inform you that you have delivered the PDF-file where
approx. 75% of the images were in RGB, and we print in CMYK, so there is an auto-conversion to CMYK so that we can print the file at all, and it can change the nuances a bit, it is completely normal. (they didn’t inform me this before they printed the booklet, regarding this RGB)

[Derek Cross]

Canon Pro printers print CMYK Plus, therefore they have a wide gamut (from RGB) so they will always print better quality prints than commercial litho CMYK, but I expect you know all that.

[rob day]

I did get your preset and it is set to No Color Conversion. I’m not sure what you or your printer are expecting—the preset allows RGB color to export unchanged.

[haneadino]

Yes exactly. I don't understand it either. But I have learned an incredible amount by asking you guys in here. Thank you so much for the help.!! I want to use your guide with this Color Conversion: Convert to Destination. And Destination: Document CMYK - Coated ”
so will all images be in CMYK? - correct?