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chrisb4712334
Participant
November 30, 2023
Question

Rendering pdf from placed images larger than 32,000px

  • November 30, 2023
  • 3 replies
  • 1856 views

I am using InDesign to create a massive printed graphic (26 x 36 ft).  I have placed a .psb file that is about 54,000px across - and it is unstable in its placement.  Despite looking correct on screen, when I export a print pdf from InDD - it shifts where its sitting - and I just can't get it to stay where it appears to be.

 

So I tried placing the large raster image @ 32,000px in an .Ai file (which can handle big images), placing this .Ai file in InDD.  At this resolution I can export a print pdf.  When I try to do the same thing, but with an image of 40,000 px in the .Ai file - it either crashes, or creates an incomplete pdf with the raster image only partially rendered. It seems like there's a limit on the size of image InDD can handle (this classic 32,000px wall that exists for raster images). 

 

Does anyone know if there's a way for InDD to handle images beyond 32,000px? Thank you

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3 replies

rob day
Community Expert
Community Expert
December 2, 2023

Hi @chrisb4712334 , What is the size of the page you are placing the .psb on? InDesign has a 216" limit, but PDF has a smaller 200" limit, so if you try to export an ID file with a larger dimension than 200" the PDF would get clipped on the export.

 

Do you have the shifting problem if you work at a 25% scale—set the document page size to 108" x78", Export at the same size, and have the printer print at 400%?

 

 

Here are the limits:

chrisb4712334
Participant
December 4, 2023

Thanks very much for all of your thoughts everyone.  Rob - you're right on about the sizing - and this is the approach we've taken - designing to about 78 x 108 in Ai and InDD.  And though all comments are correct that for a billboard - that 72dpi is plenty.  This is a very unique product - a floor map - where folks can view it from afar, but also right up close.  There is a massive amount of vector content (two .ai files worth) on top of the raster background.  And they are big vector files - very resolute rivers and lakes and roads and labels etc.  So the whole thing is a grind.

 

All I know from testing is that it can render a print pdf when the total raster-background size is 30-32K pixels (baked into an .ai file), as soon as I make a single file Ai file with a 40K pixel image - the render fails.  If I cut the native 54K pixel image in two and place two .ai files side by side - the render also fails.  And I had begun this by simply placing a psb file that was 54K across - but this was where it mysteriously shifted by 1/4 or 1/2 inch in the rendering - despite being placed precisley where it should have been. 

 

Sorry to present such a muddle of a problem. 

Community Expert
December 4, 2023

How is the floor map being installed? I would assume it is being printed on vinyl specially made for floor graphics installations. The roll vinyl is available at widths only so wide. Obviously the whole thing will have to be installed in strips or panels. It can't be printed or installed in just one piece.

 

With material width limits in mind, is it possible to divide the map up into smaller segments?

Joel Cherney
Community Expert
Community Expert
November 30, 2023

Does anyone know if there's a way for InDD to handle images beyond 32,000px? 

 

It has been a very long time since I worked at anything like that scale, but the printers and signmakers I was working with echoed the advice that was typically handed out here in a previous version of this forum. The typical advice here was "use a ten-to-one ratio" while the signmakers had me go into a little bit more mathematical detail, figuring out the relationship between a single pixel and the maximum possible resolution of the print. 

 

I'm thinking about your image that is 54000 pixels across and 36 feet across... are you really printing a 36'x26' image at around 130ppi? Sorry, maybe someone who has done large-format work in the last decade should be posting this. James? I had to search "grand format printer" in order to understand what you're talking about, and now I'm looking at a brag sheet for a EFI VUTEk that will print 126 inches wide at 1000 DPI.  I'm impressed! But it does look like the industry-wide max width print path is well under 26 feet. 

 

 

Robert at ID-Tasker
Legend
November 30, 2023

Yeah, 10:1 should be perfectly sufficient - especially if it's a banner high on the building... 

 

Community Expert
December 2, 2023

Mentioned 2880dpi is pretty much standard resolution - of the print head. 

 

And technically, it wouldn't be a problem to print with this resolution - but the file - or rather files - would be gigantic.

 

So the only reason for supplying files - with birmaps "at scale" - is the size of the source file and the distance of the print from the viewer. 

 


Large format RIP applications have their own internal tricks they do for scaling raster-based imagery. But those re-sampling tricks work only so well. For elements like logos, type and other line work it's just best to create those elements as vector-based artwork (whenever possible). Vector-based elements will print at the maximum resolution the printer can output.

 

Regarding raster-based imagery resolutions in large format printing, it's all a push-pull balance. The intended viewing distance should define the resolution level of raster-based elements. Billboards are usually viewed from significant distances. Even 72ppi at full size would be overkill for something like a 48' X 14' billboard installed outside the right of way of a super highway. I like 72ppi for vehicle wraps; I might go with 96ppi if it's a smaller vehicle. A movie poster one sheet can have 150ppi photo imagery (but the smaller lettering and logos typically at the bottom needs to be vector).

 

Billboard printing companies are more accustomed to receiving Illustrator AI files or Illustrator-generated PDFs. InDesign can generate very good PDFs. Most corporate branding work is created using Adobe applications. Leading large format RIP applications have Adobe certified PDF print engines. Printing results are going to be more predictable when handling PDFs generated by Adobe applications.

 

PDFs made from Canva? Vomit. I'm really disliking this new trend of D-I-Y graphic design since it frequently involves things like Canva. It's just another extra level of frustration added to the other long existing, frequent issues with customer provided artwork. Most people don't understand the difference between pixel-based graphics and vector-based graphics. And they don't appear to be interested in learning the difference either (until they start paying our service charges to fix/re-build their artwork). Then we have the more basic problem of so many people not understanding basic geometry. Currently I'm hung up on a replacement face project for a 432" X 126" static billboard face; the client gave us the ad artwork as a low-res JPEG image that doesn't even fit that aspect ratio. He basically laid out the thing in Photoshop on a letter sized page.

 

Here's another problem when customers try to design their own billboard ad files. They very rarely ever incorporate any bleed into the artwork, much less the right amount of bleed. Not all billboard structures are the same. The graphics are typically printed onto flexible face material similar to banner material. The extra bleed area is usually for pole and pocket systems for the billboard face installation. The average is a 6 inch bleed around the perimeter of the active face area. For example, a 30' X 10' billboard face would need an art file 31' X 11'. Additionally, any important elements, such as lettering, needs to not be hugging the edge of the face. We don't live in a perfect world. So there has to be some "safe title area" style wiggle room. Plus a good billboard face design should have enough white space so the design doesn't look cramped.

Robert at ID-Tasker
Legend
November 30, 2023

Can't you split it into parts and place side-by-side? 

 

Or even a grid with much smaller pieces? 

 

James Gifford—NitroPress
Legend
November 30, 2023

It's going to have to be printed in strips anyway; I think Grand Format maxes out at ten or twelve feet wide.