shapes made in InDesign show up with a box around them when I convert to ebook

[susanh94562257]

Working on a graphic handbook for which there will be an ebook.

The bullet points are circles with a number inside and the outake quotes are larger circles with type inside.

When this is converted to an ebook as a fixed layout (because reflow just makes a disaster of the layout) there are square boxes around the circles. (This doesn't appear in the print pdf.) There are no effects on the circles - they are just a basic black % or they are white with a small rule. It seems to make no difference if they are grouped or not or whether there is a text wrap or not.

(The header in the ebook

How do I resolve this?

Thanks

[BobLevine]

Specify PNG when exporting for graphics.

[susanh94562257]

Not sure what you mean, BobLevine. These are not imported graphics, they are created in InDesign. I can't change the spec in the export screen.

[BobLevine]

Where it says Format: Automatic, change it to PNG.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Correct, but it will be interesting to seem if it works. After all, the image portion of FXL is always PNG. I haven't done enough testing to see if InDesign graphics follow any particular path in conversion when Automatic is selected; I sorta-kinda-probably-incorrectly assumed PNG was default for that.

[susanh94562257]

Sorry Bob, that did not fix it. 

😞

[Abhishek Rao]

Hello @Susan,

Thank you for reaching out with your question. I understand how frustrating it can be.

To help resolve this, could you please let me know the following:

1. Which version of InDesign are you currently using? Please provide the details of the operating system. 
2. Are the circles created using InDesign's shape tools, or were they imported from another program?
3. When exporting to an ebook, are you using any specific export settings?

I’m here to assist you and will wait to hear back.

Thank you,
Abhishek Rao

[susanh94562257]

1. InDesign 19.4 (2024). MacBook Pro running Sonoma 14.5

2. The circles are created with InDesign shape tool

3. I'm exporting as a fixed pdf. I haven't really touched any of the default settings. No cover, no navigation.

I realize I can create an ebook through the Kindle for children's books app, but I was wondering if there was another way from within InDesign.

Thanks for your help.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Actually, Bob might have nailed it.

I infer from your comments that you're exporting to fixed-page EPUB (FXL). General disclaimer: FXL is not a good format and never has been, and should be avoided except for a very narrow category of "picture page" books — and even then the flaws and issues remain.

One of the problems with FXL is that everything not text is converted to PNG graphics and each page is assembled more or less like a web page. That conversion is not often great. I'd suspect that your ID shapes are being converted to an intermediate form and acquiring the frames.

Set the export to PNG, not Automatic.

The other issue is that EPUB is highly dependent on the reader used; no two are the same and none are quite perfect. Many are absolute gritware. If you're using the Adobe viewer, stop and back away slowly... it's awful. I recommend Calibre as the current best for "vanilla" EPUB proofing and reading. You may find that it doesn't even show the frames, although (if my guess above is right)_ the flaw is actually in the export and not the reader interpretations.

And third, never use any of the KDP creation tools for anything except wasting space on your local drives. Amateur junk at their best.

And just by the bye, PDF and EPUB are completely different formats; converting to EPUB from PDF is a very poor workflow.

[susanh94562257]

I'll give that a go and let you know.

I know there are people who do not like the Fixed setting, but In this particular case, for this particular book, exporting to reflow just makes a gobbledygook mess. Also, in my experience, reflow doesn't work for picture books. 

Just for clarity, I'm not converting from PDF to EPUB. (I wouldn't even know what that is.) I'm using the InDesign setting to export to EPUB. Sorry for any mistatement or confussion.

Thanks for your help

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Reflowable is more achievable than most dabblers believe; it's just not a one-click export process like PDF, so that first garbled export is taken as a sign of impossibility. It does take some skill and, above all, a highly organized source document. Both PDF and (to a slightly lesser extent) FXL are just "printing" the source pages; reflowable is converting it to a single content stream, and hacks and shortcuts in layout will break it.

The real problem with FXL is that many readers just don't handle it well, and it's absolutely one-click-or-nothing. You can't do much with a faulty export except try to fix the source and settings and try again. (Note especially that most Kindle readers don't handle fixed pages; only the tablet and desktop apps do.)

But using an acceptable reader like Calibre helps get to a useful result, whereas some great majority of readers actually compound the confusion with their poor or just quirky rendering.

[susanh94562257]

Thanks for the explaination, James. I actually put your book in my Amazon cart. 🙂

(Still waiting to hear back from publisher if the previous hint about png resolves some of the issues)

[susanh94562257]

Actually Bob's idea did not fix it. 

😞

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Hmm.

Not much more in the guess bag. We'd have to see a screen shot of the faulty illustrations and, ideally, a sample INDD file and export to EPUB (which can be dummy content, as long as they carry the flaw) to get any further.

My only thought is to select the frames holding the ID graphics and apply a fresh, defined Object Style that is completely unmodified from "None." A completely clean, empty, plain style that doesn't have some stray setting causing the border to appear.

(You do know you should never use any of the default style settings in a document, right?)

[susanh94562257]

They're not even illustrations. Just simple circles drawn in InDesign.  Nothing fancy.

[susanh94562257]

To be clear, I don't see it in my export. It happens when she uploads to kindle.

Here's the preview I see

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Okay, I'm confused. What (exactly) are you exporting, what (exactly) are you doing to view/proof the export, and what is the overall flow of this process to where they see the flaws?

And if it hasn't been said EPUB and Kindle are not the same format. There are many... hurdles in converting an EPUB to Kindle format.

[susanh94562257]

Ok, I'm the designer for a publisher. She uploads to Amazon to e-publish it. It is a strong possiblility that my terminology and understanding of what she is doing is hindering this discussion. The print version is perfectly fine.

All I know is what I'm seeing and what she's bugging out about. 

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Well, again, print and (99%) PDF are one thing and forgiving of all kinds of problems — the whole app and process is more or less "print what you see on the layout." There can be all kinds of goopy technical flaws and poor practices and mistakes that just won't show up.

EPUB exports the document by structure, even for FXL, and absolutely nothing is overlooked. First thing I'd look for is a frame element, in its current style, that is invisible in print but is telling the EPUB process to write a stroke around it.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

But they're in a graphics frame, which could be carrying any kind of 'garbage' with it on export.

You can preview without the long loop, as well. Just install Kindle Previewer and feed it your export file.

[susanh94562257]

When I put it in Kindle Preview (or in Books) it's perfectly fine. But something is very differnt when she's uploading to Amazon.

Don't know what sort of "garbage" that would be. It's a circle in InDesign. With or with out a % of black or a black rule. 

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

That's quite rare. IME, Kindle Previewer is absolute and reliable. But then, I don't work in FXL and I know KDP is a variable target for them.

I'm out of further ideas. 😛  Except for one item — you are exporting to EPUB 3, not 2?

BTW, the Apple reader is good but nonstandard. It's okay for a quick check, or if you're developing an EPUB for iTunes, but a more vanilla reader is a good idea for general proofing.

ETA, "garbage" — Object Styles are vastly complex and encompassing. There could be any of a number of settings, buried in the deepest levels and unintentionally set, that are invisible everywhere but to the Kindle conversion rules.

[susanh94562257]

Yes its EPUB 3.0 (doesn't give a choice)

It's really frustrating.

I'll continue to try and figure it out. I attached one chapter's indd file below.  I don;t know what else to make of it.

Thanks for your time.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

No, I don't see any problems in either Thorium Viewer or (just-updated) Kindle Previewer.

Noted, though, and just as advice, it's a mistake to use any graphics element without defining at least a base, neutral Object Style for the frame. Your number-circles are overrides on the [None] style, which is a practice sure to cause problems sooner or later.

Besides a defined style for these (which would also make management easier), you might consider an entirely different approach of using text shading with the corners defined to make the background circular. Put those in text frames, not graphics frames. A wholly different process — managed with a Paragraph and Object Style set — might bypass whatever glitch is causing the destination problem.

(I'd forgotten Adobe removed EPUB 2 from FXL. At least they finally made EPUB 3 the default for reflowable, but EPUB 2 should be removed or firewalled even there. Completely obsolete format.)

[Willi Adelberger]

For EPUBs make the circles in Illustrator and export them as SVG. Use those as graphics in InDesign. This is only for EPUBs.