Should I have spaces between paragraphs or paragraph indents?

Report · Jul 22, 2010

I am creating a pdf interactive document/ebook, and am wondering whether to use a space between paragraphs or use indents. Is there a standard?

Report · Jul 22, 2010

It is entirely up to you. Use one or the other, but not both. If you are using paragraph Styles it is easy to make a global change and see which reads better. Generally, I prefer spaces to indents. The space should be either one line of lead (i.e. equal to the paragraph’s leading value) or half a line of lead if one full line looks to large.

Report · Jul 22, 2010

Well, if you want another oppinion, I think you should go with indents. Why? Because you can change them latter (make them bigger, smaller or even get rid of them in seconds).

In the end, yes, it's up to you but I don't see why someone whould chose to "skip" lines in this case.

Report · Jul 22, 2010

newToAS3 wrote:
Well, if you want another oppinion, I think you should go with indents. Why? Because you can change them latter (make them bigger, smaller or even get rid of them in seconds).
In the end, yes, it's up to you but I don't see why someone whould chose to "skip" lines in this case.

Excellent example.

Report · Jul 22, 2010

Well, if you want another oppinion, I think you should go with indents. Why? Because you can change them latter (make them bigger, smaller or even get rid of them in seconds).

If you define your Paragraph Styles, you can change paragraph spacing just as easily as you can indents. There's a setting for paragraph spacing; there's no need to whack "Enter" a second time after a paragraph in order to space it out.

There shouldn't be any technological reason to pick one over the other. I'd base my own selection on the content - e.g. textbooks would get paragraph spacing, novels would get indents. Also, for some reason that I don't understand, I associate paragraph spacing with text set in sans serif fonts, and indents with text set in serifed fonts.

Report · Jul 22, 2010

Joel Cherney wrote:
Well, if you want another oppinion, I think you should go with indents. Why? Because you can change them latter (make them bigger, smaller or even get rid of them in seconds).
If you define your Paragraph Styles, you can change paragraph spacing just as easily as you can indents. There's a setting for paragraph spacing; there's no need to whack "Enter" a second time after a paragraph in order to space it out.

That's exactly what I was talking about Joel and I'm considering that "paragraph spacing" as an indent.

The OP question here (at least I think) is whether to use indent spacing or simply skip lines when necessary.

Report · Sep 04, 2010

Hi, I've already received some very helpful advice from both Marcus and Peter today. again thank you.

Scott Falkner wrote:

Scott Falkner wrote:
It is entirely up to you. Use one or the other, but not both. If you are using paragraph Styles it is easy to make a global change and see which reads better. Generally, I prefer spaces to indents. The space should be either one line of lead (i.e. equal to the paragraph’s leading value) or half a line of lead if one full line looks to large.

My reply is in reference to the above quote regarding how to make a

global change so that all of the paragraphs in the document have spaces between them w/o having to select each and every paragraph and applying the 'paragraphspacing' style.

How do I go about this ?

secondary: not certain the below applies to my question regarding spaces between paragraphs and changing them globally.

i have also found and wondered about using the setting for the 'align to grid' where default is none and options are

'all lines' or 'first line only'. Does this apply in any way to a regular layout of a 'novel' ?

i do not know what this refers to.

The space should be either one line of lead (i.e. equal to the paragraph’s leading value) or half a line of lead if one full line looks to large.

thanks again.

Report · Sep 05, 2010

dopfel wrote:
Scott Falkner wrote:
It is entirely up to you. Use one or the other, but not both. If you are using paragraph Styles it is easy to make a global change and see which reads better. Generally, I prefer spaces to indents. The space should be either one line of lead (i.e. equal to the paragraph’s leading value) or half a line of lead if one full line looks to large.

My reply is in reference to the above quote regarding how to make a
global change so that all of the paragraphs in the document have spaces between them w/o having to select each and every paragraph and applying the 'paragraphspacing' style.
How do I go about this ?

Format a paragraph as you want all similar paragraphs to look. Now go to the Paragraph Styles panel and create a new Style. Right-click on the new style to edit the style and give it an intuitive name. Now you can format any text the same way by first selecting the text, then clicking on the style in the Paragraph Styles panel. If you later want to change all of the paragraphs using that style, just right-click on the style and change any attributes to globally change all paragraphs in the document using that style.

secondary: not certain the below applies to my question regarding spaces between paragraphs and changing them globally.
i have also found and wondered about using the setting for the 'align to grid' where default is none and options are
'all lines' or 'first line only'. Does this apply in any way to a regular layout of a 'novel' ?
i do not know what this refers to.
The space should be either one line of lead (i.e. equal to the paragraph’s leading value) or half a line of lead if one full line looks to large.
thanks again.

Leading is the term for the space from the baseline of one line of text to the baseline of the next line within a paragraph. The default is “Auto”, which is 120% of the point size. For 12 point text, Auto equals 14.4 point leading. First: Don’t use Auto leading. Change the leading of your style to a number. About 120% is as good a place to start as any, but it depends on the typeface. You may decide to use 11 point text on 14 point leading.

Because you will have columnd of text next to each other on the page, or pages of text neext to each other on a two-page spread, you want to make sure your text lines up neatly in columns or pages (although for pages it is less critical). The easiest way to do this is to use paragraph spacing equal to your leading, i.e. 14 points. This way, no matter how many paragraphs (and thus, blank lines between paragraphs) you have, the text will always have a heigh that is multiples of 14 points, so bottom baselines will always line up.

You may decide that looks like too much space, and want to use a lower value. The next best value is half the leading, or 7 points. That way, about half of the time your columns or pages will line up and the bottom baselines will sync.

Once again, it is ultimately up to you how you want the text to look and how you want your pages or column to look next to each other. If 14 (or whatever your leading is) looks too small or 7 (or whatever half the leading is) looks too big, then go with what looks best. Always try to keep an eye on the big picture, though. Don’t just look at one line of text, look at the entire paragraph. Don’t just look at one paragraph, look at the column. Don’t just look at one column, look at the page. Don’t just look at one page, look at the spread. And always keep the reader in mind. You are designing the document for the reader, not for yourself.

Report · Sep 05, 2010

Hi Scott.

The reason for my delayed thanks is because I was still in the testing phase.

I really do thank you Scott.

Well - it looks like your method worked and worked really well.

And it was simple.

What you shared allowed for me to jump in a bit more.... creating, applying and experimenting with style option.

Over the past 2 days - well what can I say - there is always such on overwhelming amount of - not so nice news - but yet it is true - that people are inherently good and do like to help one another. This is a total digression but the books that I am working on adhere to that principle or so that is my intention.

I started from scratch and will do this with every chapter.

new > doc > (use preset)

place > chapter1, chapter2 etc. etc.

'save [each] as' chapter#.indd

new > book

add [each] chapter1, chapter2, dedication, thank you, etc. etc.

add toc

select [any] paragraph > new paragraph style > right click - modify things here [using your suggestions and tweaking] save as 'spacingbetweenparagraphs'

what i learned:

-that using 'styles' is not that bad - not that bad at all .... and there are many ways to make adjustments.

-to help sort the heck out of what one does while testing - if there is a + sign next to a style - it means that you have overlapping or mixed styles in the selected text.

- to resolve this - hold the alt key down and click on the style that you prefer or change what you have selected.

Question:

- still trying to 'fix' the problem with my lines of dialogue.

- i have created a style = dialogue and under indents > space before i have .1944 [this worked - looked good visually with 'spacingbetweenparagraphs'

- each line of dialogue ends with a return - i have selected the 4-6 lines and assigned the 'dialogue' style but the result in the adobe digital reader still has a blank line between each line of dialogue [i would like these without the gap]

- i am changing the.1944 to 0 now

Question:

under paragraph style defaults, there are listed are 'basic style' and 'normal style'.

- what are these for ? which is the actual default ?

Objective - formulate an epub that is pleasant to the eyes (with font size adjustments and resizing of windows and all the options available to the different digital readers: sony reader, ipads, kindles, smartphones etc. etc.)

So again thanks Scott.

I will be looking at your other information too.

Report · Sep 09, 2010

Scott - help !! Please. I've posted about how chapter 3 just will not show up.

today is my benchmark....

thanks again,

Regina

Report · Jul 23, 2010

I recently fininished a piece in which I used both indents and spacing. The indents were used for most paragraphs, but spaces were added between major sections of the essay to help set them apart (there were no headings). The first paragraph following the space was set without an indent.

Report · Jul 23, 2010

The more important issue is how the text sits on a grid. Is it visually appealing? Are baselines aligned? Does the page have visual continuity? There's a little more to it than indent or space. Having said that, look at any magazine and indents rule the day. A space after a paragraph is a sure way to end up with 3 columns of text and none of the baselines line up. Especially if there are heads, subheads, pull quotes, etc.

Report · Jul 23, 2010

I totally agree with Mr. Met. Everybody should consider the baseline grid while thinking its projects. Unfortunately, there are still a lot of people that don't even know they exist.

@Peter, you know you can create as many paragraph styles as you may want or need. It's totally up to you. But skipping lines sometimes is the easier and faster way to go in small projects. But I would avoid using it in the big ones.

Report · Jul 23, 2010

newToAS3 wrote:
@Peter, you know you can create as many paragraph styles as you may want or need. It's totally up to you. But skipping lines sometimes is the easier and faster way to go in small projects. But I would avoid using it in the big ones.

Was that directed at me? I know all about styles, thanks, and grids, and my projects use both. I created a special "First Paragraph" style without an indent and space before to use as the first paragraph in the intorduction, main body, and conclusion sections of the monograph to be able to set these off without the need for special headings in the work, which the author did not provide. Using indents rather than spacing for the body text helped to keep the copy fit to the page count without having to make the type too small to read and helped with the grid (as pointed out by Mr. Met). Had I chosen to use paragraph spacing throughout I would either have had to reduce the type size or use a condensed font and either abandon the grid or use a full-line space between paragraphs, meaning I'd need even more space or some other device such as a drop cap or separator to clue the reader. Those would be acceptable in a novel, but not terribly appropriate in a mongraph, I think.

The whole point here is that you can do whatever you think looks good. Scott's comment about not using both was, I think, directed at not following a paragraph space with indented type, a sentiment with which I tend to agree, but it isn't a hard and fast rule, not prohibiting the usage of both in the same work altogether. In my opinion, for example, it would still be appropriate to add space before an un-indented heading in a text that uses paragraph indents for body text.

Report · Jul 23, 2010

Good point. In some cases, if the main article uses indents, I may switch to spaces in the side bar. Basically, you try a few things until you hit on what works visually. The main thing to bear in mind is that pull quotes and sidebars are secondary to the main article. It is support material to reinforce the main ideas of your primary text.

Report · Jul 23, 2010

Thanks everyone for all this advice and information. It sounds like at the end of the day it's up to my own preferences for how it looks, and there isn't a standard per se. Much appreciated.

Report · Jul 23, 2010

I think the issue here is how indents and spaces pertain to text flow in an ebook (based on the OP's recent postings). And with that comes other factors to consider, such as Kindle's automatic insertion of paragraph indents, and a device-controlled font size for viewing, and Indesign's paragraph style conversion to css during epub creation, plus many more factors...