SVG font create color issue in InDesign 2021 and 2022 but not in 2020

Explorer ,
Jan 17, 2022 Jan 17, 2022

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Hi 

I am using InDesign 2020 version. 

If I used the font "Wild Irish Rose" SVG font in InDesign 2020 and create Export PDF in my pitstop report there is no RGB error.

 

But In InDesign 2021 version I use the same font "Wild Irish Rose" SVG font and create Export PDF in my pitstop report it shows RGB color issue because of that font.

 

For both the version I am using the same export job option and same pitstop profile.

 

I attached both version InDesign file and PDF for your reference. 

 

Please let us know that anything need to be fixed in InDesign version 2021.

 

I also tried in InDesign 2022, facing same RGB color issue for this font.

 

Thanks

Ganesh.R

 

 

 

 

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Bug , Import and export

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 17, 2022 Jan 17, 2022

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Hi Ganesh, SVG object color is always defined as sRGB, so if you export to the default PDF/X-4 with No Color Conversion the font images get listed as sRGB. If you are looking for an all CMYK export try a PDF/X-4 export with Document CMYK as the Destination—but in any case the export or output is going the be a 4-color black when the source color is RGB.

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Explorer ,
Jan 17, 2022 Jan 17, 2022

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Hi Rob

 

Thanks for your information, but my issue is, its working fine InDesign 2020 and in 2021 and 2022 only it shows error in my pitstop report.

 

For all the InDesign version I am using the same export job option and same pitstop profile.

 

Thanks

Ganesh.R

 

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 18, 2022 Jan 18, 2022

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Right, AcrobatPro’s built in Preflight also shows the .svg characters as ICC calibrated RGB images:

 

Screen Shot.png

 

You did not include the font in your link, but if I place your PDF example in an InDesign doc, and export to PDF/X-4 with a CMYK Destination, the character images get converted to CMYK. looks like your export was to PDF/X-4 with no color conversion. Is your pitstop error because of the RGB objects, or the character’s image resolution?

 

Screen Shot 1.png

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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I rendered both your PDF files in Photoshop to CMYK to see what you were getting for output, and your 2020 file rendered the font only on the K layer, whereas the 2021 rendered a typical RGB>CMYK mix (as expected). Soooo..I just did test exports using a similar SVG font I have from my ID2020 and ID2021 and both PDFs I exported (using PDF/X-4>No Conversion) matched exactly, i.e. both come through as RGB. And then I did both PDF/X-4>Convert to Destination and both rendered exactly the same again, with the font only on the K layer.

So are you SURE your export settings matched? (re: "Output" settings)

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Explorer ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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Hi ALL:

 

Thanks for your reponse.

 

For further anlaysis I attached SVG font and job export job throught we transfer in the below link. Which i used for all InDesign version. In that job option I have the output convert to destination (preserve numbers) only.

 

Please download export job option in the below link

https://we.tl/t-sEt4kHs5za

 

Font link

https://we.tl/t-fzunR55y0y

 

Thanks

Ganesh.R

 

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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Hi Ganesh, I think SVG fonts will be a problem in separated print output where color management matters, see this thread:

 

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/color-otf-font-changing-color-on-printer-s-proof...

 

InDesign’s Separation Preview also shows the 4-color black you would expect from an RGB object:

 

Screen Shot 6.pngScreen Shot 8.png

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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EDITED:

Meant InDesign 2020 and not InDesign 2021.

This is now corrected.

 

Hi Ganesh,

yes, I can also see a difference in the behavior of InDesign 2020 and 2022 handling this SVG font.

Did a little experiment:

 

InDesign 2020: Exported to PDF/X-4 with no color conversion.

Then I converted all text to outlines with Acrobat's Preflight single fix-up:

Category Print Production > Preflight > Acrobat Pro DC 2015 Profiles > Single Fix Icon > Document > Convert fonts to outlines

 

ConvertFontsToOutlines-SingleFix-AcrobatPro.png

 

The result was color Black only for the outlined texts.

Link to the result PDF:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6thfvb1rywlldsd/SVG%20font%20test_2020-EDITED-PDF-X-4-NoColorConversion-Te...

 

InDesign 2022: Same procedure.

The result was a mix of CMYK for the outlined texts.

Link to the result PDF:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gi0tlbkpcvoe87r/SVG%20font%20test_2022-EDITED-PDF-X-4-NoColorConversion-Te...

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Explorer ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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Hi Uwe

I just run the pitstop preflight for the both the version PDF that you placed in dropbox and attached report for you reference. So its confirm that there is some changes in InDesign version 2020 and 2022 in handling the SVG font.

 

In InDesign fixes also they mentioned this point but not fixed in 2022: Please refer the below link.

https://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/kb/fixed-issues.html.

 

We can raise this issue InDesign bug for 2022 version?

 

Thanks

Ganesh.R

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 19, 2022 Jan 19, 2022

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Hi Ganesh,

do you mean that fixed item listed with InDesign 2022 (version 17.0😞

"SVG Fonts appear as improper output (CMYK) in the exported PDF from InDesign."

 

I'm not sure what exactly was fixed here.

There is no link to a bug report and this statement is a bit vague.

 

Now that I tested also with InDesign 2021 I can see that it shows the same behavior as InDesign 2022. So I'd say, that the mentioned fix listed under InDesign 2022 (version 17.0) means something else perhaps. Or the statement is misplaced and should already have been added to the list of bug fixes done in InDesign 2021.

 

Could be that the fix of "SVG Fonts appear as improper output (CMYK) in the exported PDF from InDesign." is to your personal disadvantage, but to the advantage of other cases with SVG color fonts.

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Explorer ,
Jan 20, 2022 Jan 20, 2022

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Hi Uwe

Yes it was mention as Fixed issue in 2022 (17.0) under the heading production issue. But actually it was not fixed.

Thanks Uwe and all for analysing our issue.

 

Regards

Ganesh.R

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 20, 2022 Jan 20, 2022

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Hi Uwe, I’m not running 2022 so I can’t check Separation Preview there, but in 2021 the separation readouts are correct. If I set the document’s assigned profile to US Web Coated SWOP and check the SVG black point I get the expected conversion from sRGB to SWOP—300% 75|68|67|90—and get the same in Acrobat with a default PDF/X-4 export. Are you seeing something different in 2022?

 

Screen Shot 18.png

 

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 20, 2022 Jan 20, 2022

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"Hi Uwe, I’m not running 2022 so I can’t check Separation Preview there, but in 2021 the separation readouts are correct."

Hi Rob,

the same happens with my tests in InDesign 2020, 2021 and 2022.

The separation preview is correct in all three versions.

 

Nevertheless InDesign 2020 is doing something different when I export to PDF compared to 2021 and 2022.

That was perhaps the bug that was fixed with InDesign 2021 and mentioned as a fix with InDesign 2022, I think.

 

Maybe Ganesh misunderstood the wording of that bug fix:
"SVG Fonts appear as improper output (CMYK) in the exported PDF from InDesign."

 

The "improper output (CMYK)" was a wrong export of the colors of an SVG font to PDF in InDesign 2020 ( my interpretation ) . In Ganesh's special use case this bug was to his advantage. Now that it is fixed with InDesign 2021 and 2022 he sees an issue, because the behavior changed.

 

Have to do more tests to see the issue with InDesign 2020.

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 20, 2022 Jan 20, 2022

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The "improper output (CMYK)" was a wrong export of the colors of an SVG font to PDF in InDesign 2020 ( my interpretation )

 

But to see the difference you have to convert to outlines in Acrobat right? I’m not seeing any differences with a default PDF/X-4 export—both show the font characters as sRGB images with the output values as 4 color black.

 

Have you tried converting to outlines in ID?

 

Screen Shot 26.png

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 20, 2022 Jan 20, 2022

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Rob said: "But to see the difference you have to convert to outlines in Acrobat right?"

Right.

 

"Have you tried converting to outlines in ID?"

Yes. Unusable result. The same as in your screenshot.

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 21, 2022 Jan 21, 2022

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Since i had time on my hands, I went down this rabbit hole myself.

What I found was that the results were never consistant, in particular:

If I used the OP's export settings without changing any settings, I got the same result in all 3 : 2020/2021/2022

However, if I changed ONE setting to knock it out of being the "standard", the results were different (and randomly). e.g. if I switched the PDF version from 1.6 to say 1.5 and switched it back to 1.6, the results were diffferent.

Weird.

(Also: unless I missing something, the font used, being an image based font, has no outlines to convert to anyway)

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 21, 2022 Jan 21, 2022

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Hi Brad, we’ve been down this rabbit hole before:

 

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/color-otf-font-changing-color-on-printer-s-proof...

 

In the end SVG fonts should not be used in a separated printflow, when color needs to be managed

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 21, 2022 Jan 21, 2022

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Brad said: "(Also: unless I missing something, the font used, being an image based font, has no outlines to convert to anyway)"

 

Well, actually there are outlines…

Try to convert the text to outlines with Acrobat Pro's preflight like I did before.

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 21, 2022 Jan 21, 2022

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I did see that. There are no "outlines" in there. All that does is separate the image glyphs into separate objects.

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 21, 2022 Jan 21, 2022

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Hi Brad,

yes, you are right. It's just a bunch of pixels.

Sorry; did not want to confuse you.

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 21, 2022 Jan 21, 2022

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All good! I was worried I wasn't seeing something you were!

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