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jillc61428337
Participating Frequently
August 3, 2023
Answered

Table of Contents - Accessibility - bookmarks vs hyperlinks

  • August 3, 2023
  • 2 replies
  • 3064 views

Hi

I'm currently trying to learn more about accessibility and have come across an issue with the Table of Contents.

Previously I have always set ToC with paragraph styles but used hyperlinks to link to the desired pages when viewing in pdf.

Now learning more about accessible pdfs created in InDesign I'm now setting my text box as such (Layout > Table of Contents) this I could see was great at adding the relevant entries as bookmarks but I can't add in a hyperlink as well, or maybe I don't need to? 

When I export as interactive pdf with just the bookmarks I can hover over the entries and get the hand tool but they don't click through to the pages.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks

Jill

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer notannhavoc

    We instruct our students and clients to ignore those particular errors in the TOC that are flagged by PAC and other checkers.

     

    TOC entries do not need to have Alt Text per industry guidelines, although the PDF/UA-1 accessibility standards require that all hyperlinks have Alt Text.

     

    If the TOCI already hyperlinks the live text "Chapter 5 ... 55,"  why would Alt text be needed? The purpose and context of the link is already known by the live linked text.

     

    Alt Text would  just repeat that Chapter 5 is on page 55, and that isn't very helpful because Alt Text is not very user friendly: there is no user control when hearing Alt Text, while live text retains full user control.

     

    WCAG states this clearly: https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/link-purpose-in-context.html   If the linked text (not the Alt Text) is "meaningful" — that is, the user can figure out where they will end up if they clicked and why they should click the link — then nothing else is needed.

     

    Alt-Text on hyperlinks was intended only for hyperlinks like "Click Here" or "More Info" where it's not clear where the user will end up if they actually clicked the link. It's also very useful for long convoluted hyperlinks like the one for this post's page, "https: //community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/table-of-contents-accessibility-bookmarks-vs-hyperlinks/m-p/14073151" which would be unintelligible gibberish to a screen reader user.  Alt Text on that hyperlink could be something like "Adobe Community Forum post about accessible tables of content in PDFs".

     

    The ISO committee that creates the PDF/UA-1 standard took a one-size-fits-all approach: if Alt Text is helpful for some links, then it should be on all links.  If they had listemed to disability experts and people who actually use screen readers, I doubt they would have written the standard to be so all-or-nothing.  The standard made a bad decision, IMHO.

     

    Most checkers like PAC are written to follow the standard, so the checkers look at all hyperlinks and assess whether they have Alt Text or not, not whether they SHOULD have Alt Text.  They are just software programs that can't make a subjective decision.

     

    That's why we teach our clients and students to review those particular errors in PAC and other checkers and make their own decision about whether each link needs Alt Text or not.

     

    I know our screen reader testers who are blind/low vision don't want Alt Text on TOCs, and that's who we listen to — not the programmers that dominate the ISO committee for PDF/UA.

     


    Thank you for the very informative reply. I really do apprecaite knowing the why  behind all this. However , my client does not want to know this - he just wants it  pdf/ua compliant. I did find a solution thanks to the  accessiblity facebook group - it is one of the fixes  within the Adobe preflight panel - print production tool - preflight panel - 

     

    2 replies

    Mike Witherell
    Community Expert
    Mike WitherellCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    August 3, 2023

    In agreement with what Bevi said, and in addition, a simple thing to look for is clicking the More Options button to see more Table of Contents dialog box. Near the bottom, you will click the first checkbox for "Create PDF Bookmarks". This will improve the function of your exported PDF ToC.

    Mike Witherell
      N
      notannhavoc
      Inspiring
      September 9, 2023

      a realted problem - hope soemoen can help - I have created my ToC properly - used bookmarks - however - when I check for accessiblity - it wants each  entry to have alternate text sicne it sees it as a link

      and  another problem is that the dotted leader must be artifacted in  the pdf file- each one individually

      Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com
      Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com
      Legend
      September 10, 2023

      We instruct our students and clients to ignore those particular errors in the TOC that are flagged by PAC and other checkers.

       

      TOC entries do not need to have Alt Text per industry guidelines, although the PDF/UA-1 accessibility standards require that all hyperlinks have Alt Text.

       

      If the TOCI already hyperlinks the live text "Chapter 5 ... 55,"  why would Alt text be needed? The purpose and context of the link is already known by the live linked text.

       

      Alt Text would  just repeat that Chapter 5 is on page 55, and that isn't very helpful because Alt Text is not very user friendly: there is no user control when hearing Alt Text, while live text retains full user control.

       

      WCAG states this clearly: https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/link-purpose-in-context.html   If the linked text (not the Alt Text) is "meaningful" — that is, the user can figure out where they will end up if they clicked and why they should click the link — then nothing else is needed.

       

      Alt-Text on hyperlinks was intended only for hyperlinks like "Click Here" or "More Info" where it's not clear where the user will end up if they actually clicked the link. It's also very useful for long convoluted hyperlinks like the one for this post's page, "https: //community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/table-of-contents-accessibility-bookmarks-vs-hyperlinks/m-p/14073151" which would be unintelligible gibberish to a screen reader user.  Alt Text on that hyperlink could be something like "Adobe Community Forum post about accessible tables of content in PDFs".

       

      The ISO committee that creates the PDF/UA-1 standard took a one-size-fits-all approach: if Alt Text is helpful for some links, then it should be on all links.  If they had listemed to disability experts and people who actually use screen readers, I doubt they would have written the standard to be so all-or-nothing.  The standard made a bad decision, IMHO.

       

      Most checkers like PAC are written to follow the standard, so the checkers look at all hyperlinks and assess whether they have Alt Text or not, not whether they SHOULD have Alt Text.  They are just software programs that can't make a subjective decision.

       

      That's why we teach our clients and students to review those particular errors in PAC and other checkers and make their own decision about whether each link needs Alt Text or not.

       

      I know our screen reader testers who are blind/low vision don't want Alt Text on TOCs, and that's who we listen to — not the programmers that dominate the ISO committee for PDF/UA.

       

      |    Bevi Chagnon   |  Designer, Trainer, & Technologist for Accessible Documents ||    PubCom |    Classes & Books for Accessible InDesign, PDFs & MS Office |
      Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com
      Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com
      Legend
      August 3, 2023

      I think you've made this task much more complex than it needs to be. Let's simplify the process:

       

      1. Use paragraph styles (usually H1, H2, etc.) to format your headings that will eventually be in the TOC.
      2. Create a TOC Style, which is sort of a recipe to instruct InDesign which paragraph styles to pick up and build into the TOC. Object / Table of Contents Style.
      3. Create a page or clear an area in your layout where the TOC will be placed. The TOC is a special auto-generated text file that can't be threaded/linked to other text threads. It has to be in its own independent text frame (or series of threaded text frames if it's long and rolls over to succeeding pages).
      4. Generate the TOC and click when prompted to place it into your layout. Layout / Table of Contents.
      5. When ready, export to Interactive PDF and the hyperlinks will automatically be made. No need to do this manually.

       

      Be careful: PDF Bookmarks are not the same as a hyperlinked TOC and one can't take the place of the other. PDF Bookmarks can't be acessed by those using screen readers, so they have no benefit to those who are blind.

       

      The PDF/UA standard requires that documents 10 pages or longer must have a TOC and Bookmarks to provide maximum accessibility to all users, regardless of whether they have a disability and which technology they are using.

       

      Learn more about how the basics of creating a TOC at https://helpx.adobe.com/in/indesign/using/creating-table-contents.html

       

      |    Bevi Chagnon   |  Designer, Trainer, & Technologist for Accessible Documents ||    PubCom |    Classes & Books for Accessible InDesign, PDFs & MS Office |
      J
      jillc61428337Author
      Participating Frequently
      September 11, 2023

      Thank you for your help Bevi, I got it working with your guidance.

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