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Thai language export to PDF vs Print to PDF, diacritics are garbled

New Here ,
May 12, 2021 May 12, 2021

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Helping out a customer here with some Thai language issues.

I have a very simple file containing just a few Thai words (see attached).

If I use "Export" in InDesign 16.2.1, the PDF is visually fine but the diacritics ("accents") are garbled and/or duplicated if you try to copy/paste.

If I use "Print to Adobe PDF" instead, the file is perfect.

Of course, the simple solution could in theory be to print to PDF, but if other parts of the artwork workflow relies on Export, we don't really want to go there.

Is there a solution to this or is this just how InDesign works? Thinking it probably has similar issues with other scripts....

thanks

Johan

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 12, 2021 May 12, 2021

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i might be missing something... all of these files look the exact same and if i copy/paste it also works fine. I don't have Leelawadee font but from what i can see it looks fine...

 

Can you record your screen so we can see this more clearly please ?

Thanks

Ian

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New Here ,
May 17, 2021 May 17, 2021

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added video recording here

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 12, 2021 May 12, 2021

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I'm not seeing any obvious difference in the two PDFs either...

 

What are you using to view them?

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New Here ,
May 17, 2021 May 17, 2021

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Thanks for your comment. Yes, visually they are the same. But if you try and copy/paste the Thai text from them e.g. in Adobe reader you will get different results. This leads to other problems further down the line (e.g. when indexing the content or using proofreading tools).

 

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New Here ,
Aug 04, 2021 Aug 04, 2021

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Hi Johan

Just wondering if you got any resolution in this? We see the same problem though we are doing something slightly different. We have to format in InDesign from a supplied Thai word file and then double check teh PDF we export against the original Word file. 

In older versions of InDesign this worked fine but in 2019/2021 the order of the chararacters/diacritis in the PDF file are pretty much screwed up which I thikn is the same as what you are seeing. Visually it looks OK but when you cope the text (or for us we run an electronic comparison) the order is not correct.

Regards

Michael

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New Here ,
Aug 04, 2021 Aug 04, 2021

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Hi Michael,
Yeah we also see this with electronic proofreading, but it is also not very
future safe to have such files as output.
Only resolutions proposed by Adobe have been to revert to 2019 or to not
use export pdf in Indesign (and print through distiller instead).
None of those workarounds are feasible to us..
Best regards
Johan

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New Here ,
Aug 04, 2021 Aug 04, 2021

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Hi Johan

So did you ever get to the bottom of what the problem is? Is the composition engine in the the newer version of InDesign just not abel to handle Thai properly?

Regards

Michael

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New Here ,
Aug 04, 2021 Aug 04, 2021

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Hi Michael,
Since it works to print the Pdf I think the root cause is the text
generation that happens in the PDF library they use for the export. Since
the same promblem does not happen in Illustrator, I am curious to
understand what the difference is, but I don’t reach that level of support
with Adobe, not sure if anyone else does.
Our comparison software can be configured to work around some of this, but
not completely, and it is not really a long term solution.
Best regards
Johan

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New Here ,
Aug 04, 2021 Aug 04, 2021

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Hi Johan

Is this Johan from Informa?

Regards

Michael

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New Here ,
Aug 04, 2021 Aug 04, 2021

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That’s me.

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New Here ,
Aug 04, 2021 Aug 04, 2021

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Ahha - Michael he in Perigord

I'll email you directly as this has some relevance to one of your customers

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New Here ,
Aug 04, 2021 Aug 04, 2021

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Ok I kind of suspected I would know you 😉
Please also upvote this (and maybe leave a comment) if you agree adobe
should put prio on it
https://indesign.uservoice.com/forums/601180-adobe-indesign-bugs/suggestions/43907544-thai

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 10, 2021 Aug 10, 2021

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Hi Johan,

I see the issue with the exported PDF as well.

Bug confirmed.

 

What I did:

Opened your "thai test export.pdf" in Acrobat Pro on my Windows 10 machine.

Copied the text to the clipboard, turned to your InDesign document where I activated the font Adobe Thai Regular from Adobe fonts and pasted the text in a text frame that was formatted with Adobe Thai Regular.

 

Did the same with "thai test print.pdf" in Acrobat Pro on my Windows 10 machine.

 

No issues with "thai test print.pdf", three different results, all wrong, with "thai test export.pdf":

 

Copy-Paste-Tests-AdobeThai-from-Acrobat.PNG

 

Voted and commented at InDesign UserVoice.

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 10, 2021 Aug 10, 2021

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Also tried the following workflow with InDesign 2021 on Windows 10:

 

Print to PostScript > distill to PDF

Copy text from PDF

 

Straight away that did not work.

One error A couple of errors in the result sneaked in. See screenshot below.

 

What worked without flaw:

Switched to the Edit PDF workspace in Acrobat Pro DC and copied from that.

 

PrintToPostScriptDistillToPDF-CopyFromAcrobatProDC-Workflow.PNG

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

 

EDITED: Added a different screenshot with the error marked.

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New Here ,
Aug 10, 2021 Aug 10, 2021

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Interesting.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 10, 2021 Aug 10, 2021

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I can also confirm that the bug is not with InDesign CC 2019 version 14.0.3.433 on Windows 10.

However I can detect it also with InDesign 2021 2020 version 15.1.3.302.

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

 

EDITED Typo: I corrected "2021" to "2020" now.

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New Here ,
Aug 10, 2021 Aug 10, 2021

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Thanks Uwe, yes this is my experience too. 

Something broke with CC 2020. A bit weird that it only seems to affect Thai script.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 10, 2021 Aug 10, 2021

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Hi Johan,

I'm not sure if that error is only with Thai script.

See this discussion:

 

Additional Character spaces added when viewed as text
Debbie @ Bella, Aug 08, 2021

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign/additional-character-spaces-added-when-viewed-as-text/td-p/1...

 

The application where the text is copied from is not Adobe Reader or Acrobat Pro DC, but a " digital host (Zinio)." ( whatever that is. ) Nevertheless both issues could be related.

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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New Here ,
Aug 10, 2021 Aug 10, 2021

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OK this I havent seen. For many years we have had code to remove such spaces in our proofreading tool (I work for a supplier of automated proofreading software) but I have not heard of any problems recently. There have also over the years been issues with "All Caps" but this I think they have solved.

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