ToC Not Ordering all Text Objects Correctly

[SirCreeper]

I’m working on a document in InDesign and I’m trying to create a table of contents. I’ve created paragraphs styles for Headings and Subheadings and applied them accordingly in the document. I’ve also created paragraph styles that dictate how the ToC itself should appear, and used them when creating the ToC.  However, when I create the ToC  it doesn’t pull some the page headings properly.

Here is a snapshot of my document.

As you can see, the ToC has the order of (Workflows → Schedules → Keys → Vehicles)

when the document itself is ordered (Workflows → Keys → Schedules → Vehicles).

What’s more, if I change the order of the headings in the document the ToC won’t reflect it even if I update it or create a new ToC all together. Additionally, it was working properly in earlier versions of my document but then stopped working. I contacted Adobe Chat support and they couldn't help me. They said it might be something to do with linking, but when I asked for more detail they couldn't explain it and suggested I post on a forum. How can this be fixed?

Many Thanks

[Peter Spier]

Without seeing even a screen shot of the file it's hard to say, but the most common reason for out-of-order TOC entries is the text frames are arranged badly. ID starts in the upper left, then moves down the page looking for things to include before moving to the right and starting at the top again, so a frame low on the page, but further to the left, gets picked up before a frame higher on the page, but further to the right.

[SirCreeper]

Hi Peter. Here are two screenshots of my document. The large black boxes are to cover sensitive information and are only for screenshot purposes.

[Peter Spier]

OK, that's pretty strange. It almost looks like the file is set up to bind on the right instead of the left, but it isn't consistent.

What version of ID do you have?

Does it help to export to IDML? see Remove minor corruption by exporting

[SirCreeper]

I'm using ID CC 2015.4, I'm updating it to 2017 now.

I tried the IMDL export and it didn't work

[Peter Spier]

Export was unsuccessful, or it didn't solve the problem?

[SirCreeper]

It exported successful and I could open the file, but it didn't solve the problem.

[Peter Spier]

I know there is sensitive content. Are you able to share the file?

[SirCreeper]

Yes, I'll remove any sensitive images or text first. Is there a way to upload an entire file on here or do I need to find a site to host it?

[Peter Spier]

If you want to share with everyone on the forum, find a hosting service and post a link here. If you want to keep it private, you can send a link to me in a private message (click my avatar), or I can send you an upload link for my dropbox.

[SirCreeper]

When I try and DM you there doesn't appear to be an option to attach a file, so if you could send me a link for your dropbox I'd greatly appreciate it

[Willi Adelberger]

This behaviour is so as expected.

You have to join all text frames in a single story.

Why on earth do you create so many text frames. This is not a good kind to work. Make one single frame on each page and force correct positions with following means:

1. Correct paragraph style (don't use empty paragraphs=
2. Base Line Grid
3. Space before and after paragraph
4. Align EVERY frame to the border guide lines.

[Peter Spier]

Actually you don't have to join the frames, or work with a single story, but it probably would be easier to work with this text if it were set up as one frame per page.

I've examined the file, and indeed it is what I said initially -- frames you want to pick up early are to the right of frames that you want as subtopics. Since all of these headings are centered there is no reason not to make the frames the full width of the margins, and the obvious good reason to do so so the TOC is ordered correctly.

Personally, I would thread the frames, then delete all but the first one and resize that to fill the page. Edit your styles where necessary (define a new style for those "body text" blocks that are centered on the page that is justified, as they are now, but also has left and right indents applied), or just change the margins if none of the text needs to be wider than those blocks. You should also change from using empty paragraphs to using space before or space after to create your paragraph spacing.

From what you sent I don't see any benefit to a three-column layout, either.

I'm sending you a reworked page as a sample of what I mean.

[SirCreeper]

Thank you so much for all your help Peter!

[GrandmaGillham]

I know this is a little late however I had this problem today and found this post, so it was good to read through the replies. Thank you.

A little trick I discovered is within the "Layers" of the document, if you:

1. Reorder the text box layers to be in the heirarchy you require

2. Update your TOC

All is fixed! I hope this helps any future enquiries as it is quite simple and requires not physical movement of any items on your page. 🙂 

[GrandmaGillham]

[Peter Spier]

I just ran a rest on this in CC 2021 and it did NOT work for me. No change at all to the order in the TOC no matter the stacking order which is what I expected would be the case. I have no idea why you were successful unless your frames really are arranged in ID's reading order.

[Bevi Chagnon @ PubCom]

@GrandmaGillham 

Based on my experience, Stacking Order in the Layers Panel does not affect the order of items listed in the TOC.

As stated a few years ago (see Willi Adelberger's post November 4, 2016), the problem is usually caused by an unthreaded series of text frames. Ideally, use as few frames on a page as possible and instead use paragraph styles to format your text with spacing before/after, indents, fonts, etc.

If it's not possible to have one frame per page for your design, then thread the individual frames to create one contiguous threaded story. See Adobe's help on threading text frames at https://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/using/threading-text.html

[Bevi Chagnon @ PubCom]

@GrandmaGillham, after looking more carefully at your screen capture of the Layers panel, I question the need for these layers at all in your document.

Why put your images and objects on one layer, and the text on another? Every layer in InDesign creates more complex code in the file that can throw off automated tasks like TOCs, accessibility, conversion to EPUBs, exports to HTML and XML, etc.

There are some unusual designs that need layers, but I've never seen a need for wholesale separation of the content into layers of images and layers of text.

Suggestion: layers in Illustrator and Photoshop are essential.

But layers in InDesign have a very limited purpose in any document. Merge the layers and see if that improves your TOC.

[Peter Spier]

Can't tell from the screen shot, but one good reason for using layers like that is if you have transparency. In those cases you'd want to keep text objects above those with the transparency if possible.

[Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com]

@Peter Spier yes, transparency effects is one reason to use layers.

But you'd put only the graphics that use transparency on their own layer, not every graphic in the entire document.

[Peter Spier]

But you'd put only the graphics that use transparency on their own layer, not every graphic in the entire document.

Well, I frequently set up with three layers: Background, images/graphics and text and I try to keep them as "pure" as possible. Might not be strictly necessary, but it's a good work habit, in my opinion, and the overhead is pretty low.

For what it's worth, I've never had it cause any problem with a document, even those with multiple hundreds of pages.

[GrandmaGillham]

I've only had the problem 2 or three times, and fixing the order in the layers sorted it perfectly. Maybe I'm just lucky.

And I also try my best to use layers as cleanly as possible, I sometimes even rename groups etc when there a lots of them, so my colleagues can easily identify/locate content for editing. 

All very interesting, and just thought it worth a share.

Have a great InDesign day, Kim. 😊

[Thi-Lai27803788gaju]

Peter, many thanks. You solved my problem. I threaded TOC headings throughout the document and TOC updated correctly. Thank you!