ToC problems

[caoimhghin15A8]

Hi all

When I apply 'TOC' paragraph style to my Table of Contents title nothing happens yet when I apply 'TOC' paragraph style in my List of Figures title, the title is changed accordingly ie the title is increased to 24pt and bold. Also in my List of Figures the first one is indented. I have tried everything to understand this to no avail. Any help much appreciated, I am still learing how to us this great progam.

best wishes caoimhghin

[Scott Citron]

It sounds to me like your Table of Contents title may have some character style or styles overriding it. Try this: when applying your TOC paragraph style to the Table of Contents title, hold Option/Alt + Shift at the same time. This key combo will strip out any character overrides while applying the correct style.

[caoimhghin15A8]

Hi Scott, Thank you very much for your reply!

There is definitely something overriding it because when I go to character styles I can see that 'Table of Contents is affected by the Running Header. If I block the title and change the character style to '[none]' the TOC style kicks in immediately. Yet when I refresh the Table of contents it reverts back to the way it was before, ie the Running Header style. This does not happen in my List of Figures. Yet I cant find anywhere in the TOC style dialogue box that allows for the header to override, even though I also applied 'none' on the AMaster level too so that there is no header on the ToC page. When I click on the 'List of Figures' title, for example, the character styles shows '[none]' [and not Running Header] and so works perfectly. In the List of Figures style dialogue box I cant see anything that would explain why it works without any interference!

When I clicked alt+ shift it brings up a 'note' dialogue box.

best wishes  caoimhghin

[Scott Citron]

I know I can fix this, but doing so like this is hard. Can you post some screen shots for me to see?

[caoimhghin15A8]

Hi Scott,

I just saw your message now and attached the file. You will be able to see the Table of Contents problem and also a small problem in the List of Figures where the first fig is tabbe in for some reason [Figure 1   __Satire on...] I hope you will be able to work it out - I am completely baffled ... I have only bee doing indesign for 3 weeks.

thanks again

caoimhghin

[Scott Citron]

Got it. Will take a look and report back!

[Scott Citron]

Although I greatly admire your effort to design this book with only a few weeks of experience using InDesign, I'm afraid I don't know where to start. There are just too many things done wrong throughout the document that fixing the TOC and List of Figures will only scratch the surface of its problems. 

Sorry for the bad news, but again, 'A' for Effort, but 'F' for the actual product. InDesign is just too complex for any beginner to master after only a few weeks of use.

Scott

[caoimhghin15A8]

Hi Scott

Thanks for taking the trouble to look at the file. It is a complex program and I am doing the book myself as a practical way of learning InDesign. I am not under any time pressure to finish this so I can keep learning more about the program. I can only presume you are referring to things like the lack of sections?  I do appreciate your honesty.

best wishes caoimhghin

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

The problem stems from your use as the character style "Running Header" on the Chapter Number paragraph style. What is the purpose of the Running Header character style? The paragraph style should be all you need to format the Chapter Number text and to include it as a running header variable. 

Here are somethings I would do:

1. Fix up your text styles--you should use paragraph styles for formatting as much as possible. Generally, character styles should be used for any special formatting within the paragraph. Don't use Character styles to do what can be set directly in Paragraph styles.
2. Optional*: Work on your style naming to make them easier to identify their usage. 
3. Even more Optional*:
   1. Break the book into separate InDesign files per chapter/section. 
   2. Use the ID Book file to link the files together. 

*Optional for you; for me, they would be a must.

Also, I noticed you have a lot of blank Notes in your file. Any reason for those?

[Scott Citron]

1. Even more Optional*:
   1. Break the book into separate InDesign files per chapter/section. 
   2. Use the ID Book file to link the files together. 

With all due respect to David Creamer and his comments, I would strongly urge you not to break the book into separate InDesign files per chapter/section. Doing so only further complicates an already complicated process and is completely unneccesary. 

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

That's pretty much what I meant by "Even more Optional". I feel the OP should at least know the options exist.

[Scott Citron]

I'm afraid my comments aren't so much about a lack of sections. Moreover, I'm talking about using InDesign like MS Word, using paragraph returns and the spacebar to control where things sit on the page, extra spaces, misusing the "soft" return, and building the layout as one continuous text flow. The list goes on.

Again, I marvel at your pluck for trying something so complex, and applaud you for using this project as a learning experience! Don't let my criticism blunt your efforts; you'll get there eventually. I do suggest doing some reading about how to build longer documents. I think Nigel French addresses this in one of his books. Mike Rankin created an excellent video tutorial on the subject that's available on LinkedIn Learning (formerly Lynda.com).

I'm sure there are many other good resources, including indesignsecrets.com. I wrote an article for InDesign Magazine #42 (June/July 2011) titled "Book Design Basics: A Designer’s Guide to Getting the Most from InDesign" which has a some good information, but again only scratches the surface of this tricky topic.