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Why have Master pages in InDesign been renamed to Parent pages?

Adobe Employee ,
Oct 29, 2021 Oct 29, 2021

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Inclusive terminology-01.png

 

Words paint pictures that speak loudly. The use of words with racist, sexist, oppressive connotations, overtones, or history can make the reader feel hurt, traumatized, or unwelcome. With this in mind, non-inclusive content and reference imagery in Adobe's products are being replaced with those that reflect the company's core values of diversity and inclusion.

 

As part of this effort, in the latest version of InDesign (version 17.0),  Master Pages have been renamed to Parent Pages within the application. 

 

Do let us know if you need more information.

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Adobe Employee , Nov 03, 2021 Nov 03, 2021
Hi all, Thank you for your feedback and for sharing your opinions. We have read all your observations and shared them with the relevant team members. While we will keep this topic open for discussion, we urge you to maintain the decorum of this community by ensuring your adherence to its guidelines.  We encourage you to make any change requests or suggestions on the InDesign UserVoice forum https://indesign.uservoice.com for them to be priortized by the product team. Thanks, Preran

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 31, 2021 Oct 31, 2021

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Hi!

 

First of all, I'm not InDesign user, but Photoshop and Bridge where I'm focused on scripting.


Few days ago I met this information in other thread as well as sole 'diversity and inclusion' term. Since last days I tried to dispute over this change with other people in closed circle with no success, today I started looking more what it's all exactly about. By 'googling' I finished in this topic. As you are an emplyee sharing this annoucement I believe you are in power to reliably answer to my questions. Actually there are many, but I shrink them only to that what I assume is most important now.


From that I understand the 'Master' word (replaced by Parent) is from now on too oppresive to other people because of occurances in History. As I'm non-english person I can only guess it's about the times in US when about 150 - 200 years ago white people enslaved Africans in own country to use as servants / workers. How ever people from those times passed away so rather using 'Master' can't traumatize anyone, it is still unnice due to historical associations. And here's my question:


Since the Terms of Use state to be kind and respectful to other participants of forum, will be using Master word considered as unwelcome word we can no longer use in any context, even for Parent page, if formerly many InDesign community members have gotten used to this name? Basicly, if that's non-inclusive and though used without such intention may still contain negative overtone for some users, shall they been reprimanded or maybe reported for inappropriate language?


There are really not many informations in your post and on InDesign pages, just short general hint, all the more given without any previous officially presented information. I'm asking also as confused ACP to get to know present standards how to approach to people using in their language this word.

 

Thank you for the clarification, and by the way I would appreciate if you could send me to some page with list of similar hurting words that we should avoid to use on this forum, and which ones shortly may be formally restricted.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 01, 2021 Nov 01, 2021

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Is it really that difficult to say "Parent pages (formally master pages)" for a year or so? I feel your question is a mask for social commentary.

 

Unfortunately, racism is alive and well in the world, not just the USA. Since I will never know the sting of racism or how one feels hearing words/phases with racist overtones, I don't think it is my place to decide if  someone else if affected by them. 

 

Many idioms, including many I have used, have their roots in racism. I will consciously make an effort to avoid using them. That includes use of the word "master". I consider it the least of what I can do on these forums and my classes.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 11, 2021 Nov 11, 2021

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I would comment but my post in the other thread was taken down and I was accused of "attacking" Adobe. FWIW I'm politically progressive and socially quite liberal so I'll just shake my head here, roll my eyes, and move on.

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New Here ,
Oct 31, 2021 Oct 31, 2021

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This is the most pathetic, ridiculous thing I have ever read! If you look up the meaning of 'Master' as an adjective it means 'main or principal'. It's always been master pages and noone even thinks of it in a slavery kind of way.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 31, 2021 Oct 31, 2021

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Some background on this issue: https://www.cnet.com/news/twitter-engineers-replace-racially-loaded-tech-terms-like-master-slave/

 

It's not just Adobe, but all major software vendors are correcting common terms with ones that are more neutral on many levels:

  • Whitelist becomes allowlist.
  • Blacklist becomes denylist.
  • Master/slave becomes leader/follower, primary/replica or primary/standby.
  • Grandfathered becomes legacy status.
  • Gendered pronouns (for example "guys") become folks, people, you all, y'all.
  • Gendered pronouns (for example "he" or "his") become they or their.
  • Man hours becomes person hours or engineer hours.
  • Sanity check becomes quick check, confidence check or coherence check.
  • Dummy value becomes placeholder value or sample value.

 

Bevi Chagnon | Designer & Technologist for Accessible InDesign + PDFs |
Books & Classes | PubCom

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Explorer ,
Oct 31, 2021 Oct 31, 2021

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[abuse removed by moderator]

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New Here ,
Oct 31, 2021 Oct 31, 2021

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Yes I know it's everywhere – the world has gone nuts! Black and white doesn't always refer to race – they are colours (or shades technically) – master as an adjective means main, the gender thing is wayyyyy over the top too – if people are offended by words like father or man then they need counselling. Noone I've worked with in the design industry is offended or hurt by any of these terms – we all know the intent and context they are used.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 31, 2021 Oct 31, 2021

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The world might go crazy with the word changes, but I hope we all take everything in stride. 

 

If we can accept some changes that clean up any misunderstood undertones of a word, then let's do it. It might not affect me personally, but it very well could affect my neighbor or colleague.

 

Your right, most of these words have other meanings that don't have anything to do with race, gender, age, or slavery. For example, I don't know what to call the master electrician I have to hire for certain electrical repairs. That's the term on his license from the county which regulates what type of work he's qualified to do. So I will still hire John K. and call him a master electrician; gratefully, I think those who are sensitive to another use of the word "master" will take that into consideration.

 

Bevi Chagnon | Designer & Technologist for Accessible InDesign + PDFs |
Books & Classes | PubCom

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New Here ,
Nov 10, 2021 Nov 10, 2021

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The purpose of Newspeak was not only to provide a medium of expression for the world-view and mental habits proper to the devotees of IngSoc but to make all other modes of thought impossible. It was intended that when Newspeak had been adopted once and for all and Oldspeak forgotten, a heretical thought--that is, a thought diverging from the principles of IngSoc--should be literally unthinkable, at least so far as thought is dependent on words.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 13, 2021 Nov 13, 2021

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LATEST

Not sure who marked @Ralph5C80's references to George Orwell's 1984 as a correct answer, but was glad to see it.

For those who need a refresher, see the book's Wikepedia page Newspeak

 

Bevi Chagnon | Designer & Technologist for Accessible InDesign + PDFs |
Books & Classes | PubCom

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Engaged ,
Nov 02, 2021 Nov 02, 2021

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That the one use of 'master' is 'master/slave' — still commonly used in mechanical engineering and the like — has eclipsed the use of 'master' as in primary, original or source — the 'master copy' of a document, for example, or a 'master  mold' — is just a sign of the current era's hypersensitivity.

 

I don't really care what Adobe chooses to call a feature, but as I have never, ever seen any form of either 'slave' or 'child' in reference to, you know, actual working pages as opposed to the ones that control their format, the switch to 'Parent pages' is more hilarious than anything else.

 

I also note it's confusing the hell out of novice users, many of whom seem to be at the college level where this change should be instantly grasped and praised. As a cisgender female Wiccan of color (green) once put it, "What a world... what a world..."

.
||| Word & InDesign to Kindle: A Professional Guide. (It's on Amazon.) |||

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 03, 2021 Nov 03, 2021

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The word "Master" in the dictionary has several different meanings, and the meaning would apply to the context in which you are using the word. This is software, for goodness sake, if you are offended by the use of the "Master" page, you are looking to create division and an issue where there is not one. What's next "Command Key," "Period," "Bullet," and "White Space," to name a few. If you think that changing words in the computer software will bring society closer together, it is nothing more than an effort in futility.

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Engaged ,
Nov 03, 2021 Nov 03, 2021

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Maybe we should leave it all to someone who has a Parents in English.

.
||| Word & InDesign to Kindle: A Professional Guide. (It's on Amazon.) |||

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 31, 2021 Oct 31, 2021

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My two cents on this, doing such changes gives way more publicity to the negative aspects of whatever it is that is being avoided and defeats the purpose totally. The problem was never the words but the wrong use of them, rather than fixing the problem, educating people to respect others and be empathetic, what the organisations and so called leaders do is go on a rampage of changing the vocabulary of things that mean whole lot of other things in addition to the negative aspect. For me such cases are a perfect example of misplaced priorities. We are trying to herald a world which will have all the vices that we want to avoid but will add a new burden on the common folks to think through what words to use in a freewheeling coversation as you never know you unknowingly may use a banned world and people get offended(many for the sake of it without understanding the backdrop or context of the use).

-Manan

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 31, 2021 Oct 31, 2021

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I don't like a games with a words. Parent can be not so good word here too (Child-to-parent violence as example of these strange word-games). Master for me is an ace (Master of arts, head of college, etc). English for me isn't native. But I wasn't seen applying master as pain word for some racism things whole my life. Here my opinion - Adobe isn't right with changing old known interface word. This is only my opinion as non-English native speaker.  

 

On other hand we are here for help each other, not for dousing with water Adobe decision or talking about "racist, sexist, oppressive connotations, overtones". Open on indesign.uservoice.com feature request about changing back Master pages if you so wanna do this. 

 

Thread is closed. 

 

 

Remember, never say you can't do something in InDesign, it's always just a question of finding the right workaround to get the job done. © David Blatner

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New Here ,
Nov 01, 2021 Nov 01, 2021

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This is wonderful; but what about those who had parents who were oppressive and/or abusive? Aren't you making children of said parents unwelcome? Or those without parents - are you flaunting your parent-privelege?  Your software, your naming, but I think your thought process is certainly not continuously applied.

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New Here ,
Nov 05, 2021 Nov 05, 2021

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there are many people who are not parents or can not be parents.  Naming these pages as Parents are traumatizing to those who want to be parents and cannot be.  this is hurtful

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 05, 2021 Nov 05, 2021

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This is getting ridiculous.  

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 05, 2021 Nov 05, 2021

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This was my 1st comment to coworkers when I was reporting on all the new features in InDesign 2022. 
This does beat the new features list for InDesign 2021, which included over 150 bug fixes as a feature.

 

Next up: Color swatches are being renamed "Swatches of Color" to move the emphasis from the adjective to the noun.

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Advocate ,
Nov 01, 2021 Nov 01, 2021

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Hello @Preran,

I have a very important question, how is this change going to affect the InDesign ExtendScript API (17.0) when released??

Are all the references to anything "Master" being updated to "Parent"?

 

Regards,

Mike

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 02, 2021 Nov 02, 2021

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I think we will have broken all the old scripts with a "master".

 

😈

 

 

Remember, never say you can't do something in InDesign, it's always just a question of finding the right workaround to get the job done. © David Blatner

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 02, 2021 Nov 02, 2021

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I can't find the link, but a previous post said the scripting language has not changed. 

 

Found it:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/master-page-to-parent-page-change/m-p/12475979

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 02, 2021 Nov 02, 2021

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Hi Mike,

nothing has changed regarding master pages ( now parent pages ) in ExtendScript for InDesign 2022.

And property parentPage still denotes a page object. Be it on a document spread or not.

 

FWIW: There is no and I think there never was a property named "masterPage" in the InDesign DOM.

There are page objects and they are tied to spreads and masterSpreads.

 

That other thread can be found here:

 

Master page to Parent page change
Thiago Ribeiro Nogueira, Oct 27, 2021
https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/master-page-to-parent-page-change/td-p/12475979

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Adobe Employee ,
Nov 03, 2021 Nov 03, 2021

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Hi all,

 

Thank you for your feedback and for sharing your opinions. We have read all your observations and shared them with the relevant team members. While we will keep this topic open for discussion, we urge you to maintain the decorum of this community by ensuring your adherence to its guidelines. 

 

We encourage you to make any change requests or suggestions on the InDesign UserVoice forum https://indesign.uservoice.com for them to be priortized by the product team.

 

Thanks,

Preran

 

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