Best and Fastest way to create outlines in file

[umagurl77]

Hi there,

Every working file that leaves my workplace has to have outlines. We are not allowed to share the fonts. I don't always want to rely on sending a high res PDF either. Is there a better way to create outlines in my file than manually doing it. Is there an automated way? Sometimes there are 10+ files and I have to manually do each one and it's very time consuming.

Any tips would be great!

[Steve Werner]

If you need to outline fonts, this is now considered the best way:

Outlining Fonts, the 2016 Edition - InDesignSecrets.com ...

[umagurl77]

Thank you. This is good, but I still have to send the high res PDF. Let's just say I don't want to. Sometimes I want to send the file though. Any other tips for physically outlining fonts?

[Steve Werner]

The method I linked to can done with a high resolution PDF. No problems with that.

[BobLevine]

Of course you’re not allowed to share the fonts but that doesn’t mean you have to outline everything. Frankly, that is absolutely insane.

If you use Typekit, anyone receiving the file will need to have a CC subscription and will have access to the same fonts.

[umagurl77]

It's unreasonable to think that everyone getting the file has a CC subscription? I am part of a very large company and we didn't get a CC subscription until 6 months ago. All of our software is monitored and pushed out from a central location which also does the same for thousands of companies.

Can anyone help me with the actual question of a automated way to make physical outlines, whether it's agreed upon or not?

[rob day]

It can be done via scripting—you might ask in the scripting forum.

Just curious why isn't PDF always an option? Usually the reason to send a package is to allow the printer to make edits, but with all of the text as outlines there's not much they can do.

[SJRiegel]

Creating outlines within InDesign can really trash your file. If you do this, you will have to inspect every inch of your layout for things that could have gone wrong (or gone missing). 

Here is an extreme example of the perils: Before and after, with Text to Outlines being the only thing done. Bullets and numbers are lost, underlines are lost, any color that was applied to a text box is lost. Those are just of few of the issues.

[umagurl77]

Thx Rob!

I'm able to send high res print PDFs with my files, but I just like to also send an outlined file in case they need to do something in the file on their end. Maybe old school. And not being able to send fonts anymore, if they need to work in the file, I have to outline it.

[rob day]

in case they need to do something in the file on their end.

But what would they be doing?

I can see wanting the printer to make last minute text corrections, but they wont be able to do that. They can't fix resolution problems, and most color management issues can be handled in AcrobatPro if you provide PDF/X-4 files.

[umagurl77]

Honestly, I don't know what they would be doing. I set up my files pretty good. But the last thing I want is to hear back from the printer that they need the file because they can't do whatever. It's just kind of a precaution.

[rob day]

But the last thing I want is to hear back from the printer that they need the file because they can't do whatever.

But that's the reason for the PDF (PDF/X-4) workflow. If there's a problem in the PDF that can't be fixed via AcrobatPro or other PDF prepress tools, access to the native files wouldn't help because you've made the text uneditable. Outlining is a solution looking for a problem.

[umagurl77]

@Rob, can I ask a side question? Is that what the most desirable PDF is these days? PDF/X-4. Is PDF/X-1a a thing of the past?

[rob day]

@Rob, can I ask a side question? Is that what the most desirable PDF is these days? PDF/X-4. Is PDF/X-1a a thing of the past?

For print PDF/X-4 is the most flexible particularly if you are going to ask your printer to intervene. Transparency is kept live and all color that is not document CMYK must have a profile included. PDF/X-4 allows profiled RGB images, which lets the final conversion to CMYK happen either at export by you, or output at the printer when the final press color profile is known.

Most automated systems (online printers) still require PDF/X-1a where transparency is flattened and all color must be converted to CMYK. In automated systems there can't be much if any intervention, so the PDF has to be literally press ready.

[John Mensinger]

umagurl77  wrote

Every working file that leaves my workplace has to have outlines. We are not allowed to share the fonts.

The maker/enforcer of that policy is incorrect, and responsible for the only reason you have a perceived breakage in your workflow without a simple solution.

[umagurl77]

I suppose I was generalizing. We are not allowed to share fonts unless the license allows sharing it with a printer, 3rd party, etc. Sure I could include those. I'm going to look into eliminating working files more and go with print PDFs.

[Colin Flashman]

Am I understanding your workflow correctly? A packaged InDesign file that only has links but all the fonts are converted to curves is supplied, but not a PDF... or a PDF is supplied but the preference is not to?

By adding the "convert all text to outlines" in InDesign and supplying that to the printer, digital integrity is lost because the printer is no longer using the same artwork that the original artist has, and if there is an error in terms of content disappearing, the fault is more likely to lie with the artist than the printer purely because of this extra step.

I can see reasons where converting all text to outlines is required, but this may inadvertently breach the EULAs that are associated with the fonts. Some examples are:

* Typekit fonts (don't get packaged in an InDesign packaged file, though can be accessed via the Typekit service);

* Fonts that don't allow font embedding into a PDF;

* Fonts that - while they will embed into a PDF - won't package into a folder due to licensing restrictions.

Besides my own opinion of preferring that packaged files NOT be converted to curves, there are three other VERY experienced InDesign users on this forum saying that the intended procedure will cause further pain points.

If your hand is forced and you MUST convert files to curves, do it OUTSIDE of InDesign and use a preflight action that is available in Adobe Acrobat DC as initially suggested by Steve Werner: https://indesignsecrets.com/outlining-fonts-the-2016-edition.php

[rob day]

Here's a js. There are obvious risks with this—forget to do a Save as and you would loose the original. This wouldn't get tables, overset text, or fonts in placed files.

for(var i=0; i < app.activeDocument.stories.length; i++){
    var s = app.activeDocument.stories.item(i);
    for(var j=0; j < s.paragraphs.length; j++){
        var p=s.paragraphs.item(j);
        p.createOutlines();
    }
}

[Colin Flashman]

@rob

When writing any script lately that doesn't start from a blank document, I almost always try to wrap it in an "undo" wrapper - https://indesignsecrets.com/add-undo-to-your-script.php

[rob day]

Yes, that would be useful, but there's still the possibility of forgetting to do the Save As— a Save followed by a close would be a problem.

I hesitated in posting the script example, but the question really was about automation and not the problems outlining creates.

[Laubender]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/rob+day  wrote
Here's a js. There are obvious risks with this—forget to do a Save as and you would loose the original. This wouldn't get tables, overset text, or fonts in placed files.
for(var i=0; i < app.activeDocument.stories.length; i++){     var s = app.activeDocument.stories.item(i);     for(var j=0; j < s.paragraphs.length; j++){         var p=s.paragraphs.item(j);         p.createOutlines();     } }

Hi Rob,

maybe it's better to do a GREP find action for all text so that also all text of table cells can be reached. Or footnotes text.

Wheras footnote numbers will simply vanish. Bullets and numbered paragraphs: Bullets and numbers could be converted to regular text first and some other things like text frames could be duplicated that contain fills and converted to graphic frames; things like that and way more…

Ah. Forgot: cells in tables will maintain cells in tables so one has to fix the height of every cell in a table before creating outlines.

And on and on with exceptions…

Regards,
Uwe

[rob day]

And on and on with exceptions…

Yes it's all a potential mess.

[umagurl77]

Hey everyone,

I have seen the light and have started to mandate not converting to outlines manually in our studio. I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but . you were all so knowledgeable..

After I make the high res PDF, what things should I check in Acrobat before I send to the printer? Things like colour space, DPI? I'm going to train the rest of my co workers on this and just want to be thoroughly informed.

Thanks in advance!