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A
Ant77
Participant
October 24, 2018
Answered

InDesign drop shadow effect, knockout box PDF print problem

  • October 24, 2018
  • 3 replies
  • 10069 views

Hi,

I am looking for some help with a problem I recently had sending a pdf file to press (PRINT).

I did not create the ad so I will do my best to describe the problem.

The ad was created in InDesign. (I assume and not Illustrator)

It has a raster image with a drop shadow. The drop shadow was applied in InDesign using the effects option.

Note: In the effects pallets I see the option "Object knocks out shadow".

From memory I think that option was something that caused us problems years ago. It was rather annoying that it is incorporated into InDesign but causes problems on press. I never really understood what it does or how it causes the problem

The problem that occurred is half the raster image, when it was printed, was white.

The client sends me a PDF file of the ad, not the InDesign file.

I place the PDF on my page layout in InDesign and output a pdf based on settings my press sends to me.

My PDF did not show the problem when I proofed it and the people at the press didn't notice the white knockout on their proofs.

We have had a similar problem in the past but it was caught before going to press.

The press did not have an answer to the problem other than the ads would have to be flattened to avoid these problems.

I cant believe that there are not PDF output settings in InDesign that would alleviate this problem.

Does anyone know what the problem is and how to alleviate this?

I cant get hardcopy proofs from the press. There is no time to do that. I cant proof the proofs digitally from the press as there is no time for that either.

The press contacted Kodak and they didn't have an answer, which amazes me. All they said was inDesign offers options that don't transfer well to print products and cause problems.

Thanks

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer Willi Adelberger

    You will have the the best results if you place PDF/X-4 files into InDesign with live transparency regardless which standard is used to output later from InDesign. Use only PDF/X-4, with live transparency and RGB images.

    3 replies

    A
    Ant77Author
    Participant
    October 29, 2018

    Guys,

    Thank you for the help.

    We were able to fix the problem by changing the InDesign pdf settings to PDF X-4:2010.

    The problem files all had the same issue. A raster image place in InDesign or Illustrator and a drop shadow applied.

    The drop shadow and raster image were overlayed on vector based graphics.

    I have designed ads before that had that sort of situation. People don't want to build the raster image in photoshop and go back and forth between programs to adjust the individual elements. So doing everything in one and mixing raster and vector images in one program is easier.

    Again, thanks for all the help. I appreciate it.

    Willi Adelberger
    Community Expert
    Willi AdelbergerCommunity ExpertCorrect answer
    Community Expert
    October 24, 2018

    You will have the the best results if you place PDF/X-4 files into InDesign with live transparency regardless which standard is used to output later from InDesign. Use only PDF/X-4, with live transparency and RGB images.

    A
    Ant77Author
    Participant
    October 24, 2018

    So you are saying to avoid this problem my setting for PDF in InDesign should be PDF/X-4:2010 ?

    The compatibility then changes to Acrobat7 (PDF1.6).

    When I go to the Advanced tab the Transparency Flattener info is grey out.

    Is that all correct?

    If so I could test it and see what the printer says about the new settings but I don't know if those settings will be compatible with what they need.

    Willi Adelberger
    Community Expert
    Willi AdelbergerCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    October 24, 2018

    Printers are often requiring x-3 oder x-1a and think that you should use them when placing in InDesign too. But importing into InDesign should always be x-4, as this enables you to export from InDesign x-1a, x-3 and x-4 files.

    rob day
    Community Expert
    rob dayCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    October 24, 2018

    It was rather annoying that it is incorporated into InDesign but causes problems on press. I never really understood what it does or how it causes the problem

    It might be needed if the object with the shadow is also transparent, something like this where the bottom version is set to knockout:

    Whenever you use transparency you have to consider where it will get flattened and if the output device is capable of correctly handling the transparency. What Export preset did you use?

    A
    Ant77Author
    Participant
    October 24, 2018

    The object was not transparent (it was a picture of a vegetable), so I'm not sure how they applied the drop shadow option. (with or without the box for knockout checked). I almost never pay attention to that box when I use the drop shadow effect in InDesign. My guess is it's always checked but i never use it for anything with a transparency.

    I used the PDF export in InDesign. Format Adobe PDF (PRINT).

    In the dialog box for Export Adobe PDF, the presets are determined by what my printer sent me.

    Is there something I should look for in the presets that will stop this problem? My printer didn't offer any modification to the presets as a fix. They made it seem like the only true fix is to flatten all files before sending the pdf's to them which makes no sense to me. That sounds like they want me to open the pdf's in PS, flatten them, then bring them into my layout in InDesign and make a PDF of the page.

    I have to ask them what they mean by "flatten".

    rob day
    Community Expert
    rob dayCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    October 24, 2018

    You can force all transparency to be flattened by setting Compatibility to Acrobat 4 (PDF 1.3)—the PDF/X-1a preset flattens. If you select Acrobat 4, the Transparency Flattener preset you choose in the Advanced tab affects the quality of the flattening.

    If the printer isn't capable of correctly outputting live transparency, but they are providing a preset that keeps transparency live, it would seem like the bad output is their problem.

    A screen capture of the problem page along with a photo of the print output might help.

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