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A
a.yalda
Inspiring
February 25, 2019
Answered

InDesign XML Tags affecting layout

  • February 25, 2019
  • 3 replies
  • 812 views

Hello,

I use InDesign XML tags in my translation workflow to update content between an XML file residing on SDL WorldServer and an InCopy document that can import directly into a template.

I am running into trouble with certain translated languages (specifically Hebrew and Japanese) where the XML tags cause changes to the text itself.

In Hebrew, Nikkud characters (small punctuation symbols that tell the reader how to pronounce the word) often shift when enclosed in the XML tags.

In Japanese, rubys shift to the next character in the document.

These then need to be corrected by hand even though the XML information in the raw ICML file is correctly formed.

Has anyone run into this before and is there a way to get around the text shifting?

Thank you.

Best regards,

Adrian

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer a.yalda

    After much research, I have found the answer for Japanese:

    Rubys can be set to "per-character rubys" or "group rubys." This is best set on a paragraph style level. It can then be overridden if necessary on an individual character.

    The handling was to set the paragraph style to per character ruby and the rubys stopped shifting. Then, because all rubys that are intended to be over multiple characters need to be set to "group ruby," I programmed the files to automatically set the attribute to RubyType="GroupRuby" in the ICML file when the ruby spans more than one character and voila! No more shifting rubys.

    3 replies

    A
    a.yaldaAuthorCorrect answer
    Inspiring
    July 19, 2019

    After much research, I have found the answer for Japanese:

    Rubys can be set to "per-character rubys" or "group rubys." This is best set on a paragraph style level. It can then be overridden if necessary on an individual character.

    The handling was to set the paragraph style to per character ruby and the rubys stopped shifting. Then, because all rubys that are intended to be over multiple characters need to be set to "group ruby," I programmed the files to automatically set the attribute to RubyType="GroupRuby" in the ICML file when the ruby spans more than one character and voila! No more shifting rubys.

    H
    haggay
    Inspiring
    February 26, 2019

    Hello Adrian.

    I don't know about working with xml. But I do know InDesign needs to get Hebrew nikkud by the right order: Dagesh and then the other nikkud signs. And in Shin (ש) - first Dagesh, then right-shin or left-shin, and then other signs.

    Please tell me if that was the problem, and in every shifting the problematic letter is a letter with more then 1 nikkud sign.

    Anyway, there is a program to insert Hebrew-nikkud straight into InDesign (and other file types) quickly and easily, called Rav-nakad: http://nikkud.com/?page_id=576&lang=en

    There is also an informational video in this link, that explains how to use it with InDesign.

    Haggay

    A
    a.yaldaAuthor
    Inspiring
    February 26, 2019

    Thanks Haggay,

    On Hebrew, I looked into this further and the Nikkud seem to be shifting when created with a composite font. If the font used has Hebrew and Roman characters, then it is simply a matter of typing in the Nikkud characters in the correct sequence for them to show up correctly (and you may need a font-editing software to ensure the Nikkud do show up in the correct location).

    The shifting that happens turns out to be on both the Nikkud and the normal characters together when PDFing. In InDesign the characters look fine, but as soon as the file is PDFed, the characters shift. The only way I could get them to remain in the correct location with XML tags was to put a white graphic frame with 8% opacity behind the text frame (same dimensions as the text frame). The characters would then remain where they should be on PDF export.

    Thanks for the link though, that program looks very useful.

    A
    a.yaldaAuthor
    Inspiring
    February 25, 2019

    Below are screenshots.

    This happens only when the ICML file is changed external to InDesign and then needs to be updated in InDesign. Working directly in InDesign and checking out and checking in keeps the rubys in the right place.

    BEFORE:

    AFTER:

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