P: Applying Auto Tone to a batch of photos loses subsequent develop settings

[John R Ellis]

When you apply Auto Tone to a large batch of photos, LR does not consistently update all the photos, and subsequent batch changes to the photos’ develop settings can get lost.  This happens when using any of the mechanisms for batch changes: Photo > Develop Settings > Paste Settings, Auto Sync, Quick Develop > Saved Preset, or via the SDK.

This problem has existed for many years (see all the reports merged below), at least since LR 5, and probably at least since LR 4.

Apparently, when you apply Auto Tone to a batch of photos, internally LR just sets a flag on each photo, deferring the actual computation of the Auto Tone until later. It won’t actually compute the Auto Tone develop settings until the photo’s thumbnail becomes visible in Library or you edit the photo.  But any other develop settings you’ve applied to the photo in the meantime will get silently overwritten by the deferred Auto Tone.

To reproduce the problem: 

1. In Develop, define a develop preset “Test Dark” with only Basic Tone: Exposure checked, with Exposure = -5.00.  

2. In Library grid view, select at least a couple hundred photos.

3. Do Quick Develop > Reset All.  Scroll through all the thumbnails to make sure the reset completes.

4. Do Quick Develop > Auto Tone (with all the thumbnails still selected).

5. Wait a minute or more (you don’t have to wait, but this shows the bug is not timing dependent).

6.  Do Quick Develop > Saved Preset > Test Dark to apply the preset to all the photos.

7. Scroll through the thumbnails and wait for the three white dots in the upper-right corner of each to go away, indicating that the the deferred Auto Tone is finally being applied.  Notice that only some of them are correctly rendered as auto-toned followed by Test Dark (i.e. they are near black).    

In general, if a thumbnail was off-screen at step 6 when the preset Test Dark was applied, then the Auto Tone will eventually take effect, but the exposure setting of Test Dark will be lost. Further, the develop history will be inconsistent, showing Test Dark as being applied after the Auto Tone, but the exposure slider showing the Auto Tone setting, not the Test Dark settings of -5.00:

RackMultipart2016102486746103c-cc2fc771-f0bf-4f95-80be-2918c17d83f7-1922543324.png

Workarounds:

Three workarounds:

- In LR 7.3.1 and later, apply Auto to the batch of photos using a preset, e.g. the built-in preset Classic - General > Auto Settings.

- After applying the batch Auto Tone, scroll through Library grid view and wait until the Auto Tone is actually applied before applying another preset or batch develop setting.

- With all the photos in the batch selected, do Library > Previews > Build Standard-Sized Previews and wait for the progress bar to indicate completion.

A related problem:

A similar problem occurs when synchronized Lens Profile Corrections to many photos, and the workaround is the same.  See https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-sdk-photo-getdevelopsettings-return...

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

In Photoshop Lightroom 5, if you select all photos, apply Auto Tone, then apply a preset that will change the tone, in some but not all of the photos, the preset tone settings is not applied.

[kbarre]

I posted the following in the Adobe forums 3 days ago. I've had zero responses.

Auto Sync is not functioning properly after I choose Auto Tone.

Auto Sync is functioning as expected, unless I choose Auto Tone first.

I have about 1000 Images that I wish to apply a Preset to. When I created the Preset using New Develop Preset, I left all of the options checked except Exposure.

I want to use Auto Tone to set the exposure for each image automatically, and then apply my preset to all images, leaving their exposures unchanged. If I apply the Preset to all of the images before selecting Auto Tone, everyting works as expected. If I choose Auto Tone first, a small portion of the selected images will be updated, but most will not. The preset will change all settings except those in the Basic Tone area. It's as if Auto Tone has somehow become "sticky" and will not allow itself to be overridden. Even if I choose a single image, apply my new settings to it, and then manually select Sync, it doesn't work for all images. It also won't work if I have have Auto Sync selected, and then make manual changes to individual sliders. It will work for some images near the ones I see in the filmstrip on the bottom, but not all of the images selected.

This is extremely frustrating. Again, everything works exactly as expected, unless I choose Auto Tone first.

[markm85928519]

Here is my setup:
Lightroom 6.3 (updated from LR4, to LR5, and now to LR6)
Win7 Home Premium 64bit
Canon RAW files being converted to DNG files on import

Here is my problem:
I need to zero all develop settings on just over 1000 RAW images and then apply a custom preset. I select all images under the Library tab and hit the "Reset All" button. That usually works for the reset, but there are times when not all images get reset and I have to do it manually. I get the same result when attempting to apply a user preset to the entire batch of images, although I have never gotten the preset to be applied to all images. It doesn't seem to consistently miss only particular images...I've had the same image get the setting applied on one attempt, then not get the setting applied on a subsequent attempt. I've done this at least 7 times now and each seems to suddenly stop applying the settings starting at random places in the batch. I've gotten this to work on smaller batches of maybe 50 or so images, but that is quite time consuming and obviously not the way Lightroom is supposed to work.

Failed attempts to fix the issue, as recommended by a staff member in the Adobe discussion forum, have included the following:
- Ensuring I have full control (read/write access) to the drive containing my LR catalog and image files
- Backing-up LR catalog, closing LR, then double-click/opening the back-up .lrcat file to open the catalog in LR.
-Re-importing the files and applying the preset on import
-Switched to the Develop tab, control+A to select all images, and then applying a preset

Let me just elaborate a bit more on what I'm seeing during the process...

Under the Library tab, in the quick develop menu, I am choosing a Saved Preset from the drop-down list. After the selection, the progress bar in the top left corner says "Apply Preset" and the bar fills, eventually disappearing. I can see the thumbnail images changing in sequence starting with the first file/thumbnail. I then switch to the Develop tab. Again, I can see the thumbnail images at the bottom of the screen changing to match the presets. When I click on one of the thumbnails, the image settings do not reflect the preset. If I then attempt to apply the preset from the Navigator panel on the left, nothing happens. The only way I can get the preset applied to the image is to first select any other develop preset, and then re-select the desired (originally intended) preset. Only then will the image and settings reflect my preset.

This is causing MAJOR issues in my workflow. Individually processing 1000+ images after shooting a wedding is unrealistic and will ultimately force me into using a different application if this can't be resolved.

[John R Ellis]

In the original topic, Mark Mannetti wrote:

Ok, a few more observations. This time I think I'm getting closer to the cause of this problem... 

I reset all images without any issue. I auto-toned all image without any issues. I apply a preset and switch over to the develop module to check if the settings are applied; what I'm noticing is that the preview thumbnails at the bottom of the page are sequentially updating and the thumbnail images are visually changing to reflect the preset settings. However, if I horizontally scroll to the right and outpace the changing thumbnails, it seems THIS is when the settings stop being applied. After outpacing the changing thumbnails, when I click on one of the visually updated thumbnails, the full size image does NOT reflect the change. 

I've tried applying the preset and waiting a full 20 minutes before switching over to the Develop module to check the images, and still, the thumbnails are not rendered based on the new setting. They only update appropriately when I scroll through the images.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

- apply auto tone to all the photos of the catalog (few hundred for example)
- set basic tone roughly for one photo - for example highlights and black clipping
- sync develop setting of highlights and black clipping to all photos
result: more than half of the photos only get auto tone adjustments because the settings are not actually written until you open the photo and if there are more than one adjustment only first one is applied.

Also, there are several idle cores in my processor - why not use them when there's something to do like applying settings? Also I have several gigabytes memory unused - why not use it to save actual 1:1 previews? The program should write preview images into memory constantly so I wouldn't have to wait when proceeding to the next or previous image. At least this should be an option.

[areohbee]

Sometimes, I apply an auto-toning preset to a photo, and it seems to work just fine, first time, as evidenced by the UI:

* auto-toned values are displayed.
* auto-tone "button" is disabled, as it should be.

so far so good, *BUT*

plugin is still reading bupkis values, here is an excerpt from a plugin's log file:

2013-07-21 15:11:39 com.robcole.OttoToner INFO Basic settings did not settle as expected - current values:
2013-07-21 15:11:39 com.robcole.OttoToner INFO Exposure: -999999, Contrast: -999999, Highlights: -999999, Shadows: -999999, Whites: -999999, Blacks: -999999, Clarity: 3
2013-07-21 15:11:39 com.robcole.OttoToner ERROR ****** ERROR #1: Original/auto-tone not settling - PV2012 settings have not settled (after a fairly long wait).

Note: values for basic settings being returned by photo:getDevelopSettings() are the -999999 values which mean "Lr thinking/computing new values" even though Lr has already thought about it and come up with the new values.

Worth noting: values for develop settings are being checked *after* returning from catalog with-do method in which the preset was applied, and there was no error applying the preset - clearly a bug in Lr, from a SDK perspective.

Also note: this behavior is only occasional, but when it happens on a photo, it may keep happening for a while to that photo (but not necessarily to others), yet sometimes Lr will straighten itself out and stop doing it on those photos (e.g. after an Lr restart).

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

The  photo:getDevelopSettings() function will report -999999 for all the settings of the Basic panel after Auto-Tone is applied.

This was a bug in LR5 but is still present in LR 6.4 Windows 7.
How to reproduce:

Create a new catalog
Import 100 or more photos
In Library Grid select all photos
Right click on the mouse and select Develop settings -> Auto tone
Run the plug-in code provided in the SDK forum : https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2095733

See also: https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom_5_0_sdk_auto_toned_values_not_settl...  and https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-sdk-photo-getdevelopsettings-return...

This bug is serious, because the photo:getDevelopSettings() function can't be trusted to report back the right settings. This is basic information for SDK plug-in writers

[photog ash]

I believe I am experiencing the same issue in all versions from 5.2 to now 5.5. I posted a comment in the below forum but have copied what I wrote here for reference.https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1411091I just did an experiment to test it. 1. In a folder of 380 photos, I applied settings to the first photo.2. I then selected all photos3. Synced all the settings, watched as the displayed thumbnails updated4. Checked the photos that had updated thumbnails and the settings were correct.5. On the last thumbnail that had been updated, I used the right arrow to go to the next photo. This was NOT synced.6. Displayed the images in the folder in grid view (thus displaying around 20 images. Watched as these thumbnails updated.7. Checked the settings on the images that had now updated, and these were correct (except the image I found before that hadn't updated).8. On displaying the next image that didn't have its thumbnail updated, the settings were NOT synced.9. Did this again with another 20ish photos, and the same thing occurred. It seems to me that perhaps the routine that updates the develop settings is somehow incorporated in the function that updates the thumbnails?! It seems the settings are only updated AFTER the thumbnails are updated. Therefore there seems to be a workaround, but going to grid view and waiting until all the thumbnails are updated (this might mean scrolling a few times if you have a lot of photos) before applying further changes.ADD: I have just discovered that whilst the sync did occur after waiting for the thumbnails to update, some settings did NOT sync for all photos. For example, on the first batch that synced immediately Vibrance did sync (+10), but for all photos that synced after switching to grid view and waiting for thumbnail updates had Vibrance set at 0. This is unbelievably odd and makes me wonder how Lightroom is actually attempting to apply these settings.

[shanebettsphotog]

This problem continues and it is an enormous time waster. Instead of applying settings on import and then going about my work, I find myself sitting, mothering LR through the process for an hour. 

When I apply settings to 300 images, I'm probably not going to actually view each image but make initial select choices from the thumbs. From a set of 300, I might actually select less than 10% to open in the Develop module and fine tune. I'd really prefer to get that job done as soon as possible and not have to be manually applying settings to each image or, worse yet, manually applying settings to all 300.

I understand that LR doesn't update the preview to reflect new develop settings of images not on screen to reduce the drag on the GPU/CPU. I don't agree with it but I understand it. (Perhaps a choice could be offered in preferences?). What I don't understand is why the metadata that should be applied when applying Auto Tone or synching settings is tied to the preview - so that we not only have to MANUALLY reveal and apply/synch in screen-sized batches but wait for our GPU/CPU to do the math before we can move on. I can't even do anything else while it's grinding away because, if I bring another app into the foreground (Mac, ElCapitan), the whole LR process stops and awaits my return. There are only so many coffees I can make in a day.

Could I suggest that the application of new metadata for develop settings be applied AS METADATA independently from applying the math and/or building an updated preview? This should make applying and synching develop settings very lightweight for the GPU/CPU, fast and not require images or thumbnails be visible for the changes to be made. Apply the metadata immediately, render stuff later.

[shanebettsphotog]

...And now things have gone downhill with the 2015.4 update.

Not only does synching develop settings across images still require all shots to be visible, not only does this still not guarantee all selected shots are updated, not only does the number of shots you can apply the changes to each time reduce, but now I'm finding that applying a preset to a single frame does not guarantee the settings will be applied.

I have had to deselect and reselect images and apply a preset two, maybe three times to get the preset settings to be applied. Not talking about the preview here, just the sliders to have changed in line with the preset.

My cache is set to 200GB, BTW, on a fast RAID with TB's of space.

I still wonder if these changes could be applied purely in metadata and the preview updated when you actually view the image. I understand that actions such as white balance pipettes and autotone require processing and therefore need the attention of the GPU/CPU but simply moving a slider to a predetermined setting should not.

[naestyoh]

1. Select all images in a large set (maybe 100+ shots)
2. Hit the AUTO tone button to have LR make auto adjustments
3. Enable AUTO SYNC
4. Change a slider value on a single image while all are selected
5. See that the change is made and is set for several images down the timeline
6. See that the change does not get applied (or is overridden by AUTO) further down the timeline. (bug)

Same issue with copy/paste settings with Auto Sync off.

[Tokumeino]

I'm running LR6.6.1 on Windows 10. I routinley apply presets with fixed highlights, shadows, whites and blacks, but AFTER applying autotone, so as to set exposure automatically.

I've tried many things for the autotone : on import, with a preset or with autosync in the develop module. To apply fixed values after that, I also tried many things : grid mode and auto sync. And with autosync, I tried by applying a preset as well as by syncing manually. I actually tried avery combination.

I even tried a fresh install on LR, with a brand new catalog with all my pictures freshly imported.

I tried with and without xmp metadata synced.

I'm running out of options.

[shanebettsphotog]

Every day of my working life I import hundreds of shots. Currently this means three 'pre-grade' passes:

1. Auto Tone applied during import - "ballparks" my exposures. I need to have as many thumbnails on-screen as possible because LR only applies the settings to those that are being addressed by the graphics card. So, after the first screenful have lost their three little dots, scroll down a page, wait. Rinse and repeat.

2. Apply a 4:3 crop. As before, wait, scroll, repeat.

3. Apply a preset that includes a lot of settings, including lens settings, noise and sharpness, highlight, shadow, white and black levels, contrast, saturation, clarity and vibrance but not exposure (set by Auto Tone) or white balance (set in-camera). Wait, scroll, repeat.

This can take hours (literally) and there isn't a shortcut. Here's why:

a. There is NOT an option for Auto Exposure only. Auto Tone settings must be then altered by the preset.

b. There is no option for a crop in a develop preset, so I have to make that pass separately.

Why can we not set a crop factor in develop presets? It's only metadata. It's not baked in. It's just numbers...

Why can we not have an option to set Exposure to "Auto" in develop presets without all the other Basic settings being altered too?

And why do develop presets need to render in order for the metadata to be applied to all images? I understand that, Auto Tone (and the requested Auto Exposure) (would) require(s) rendering to arrive at the numerical setting but almost all other settings applied in my develop preset are purely numerical. Surely those numbers could be applied to metadata regardless of whether the image is being processed for output or not. I understand that, when an image is viewed, the render would need to take place at that stage but as it stands now, if I don't wait, scroll, wait, scroll, those images that never make it to graphics output do not have the preset applied.

The above workflow, slow as it is, saves me hours of work every day. The options I'm requesting would save me even more. Could these please be addressed?

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Lightroom AutoSynch and "DevelopSettings->Auto-tone does not apply settings to ALL selected photos. I routinely have 100's of photos selected and attempt to synch or auto-tone but the settings are not applied to all selected photos.

This bug has been present since V3 and is still there in V5. Very tired of this as it kills my workflow.

Running v5.2 of Lightroom on OS/X.

FIX THIS!

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Its been a long time since I realized I had this issue and posted. I'm glad, sort of, that I'm not the only one who thinks this is unacceptable. I've had to use a different application for my large projects because I just can't trust Lightroom to do what Itell it to do. If I have to go back and individually check 800+ images, I might as well apply the settings individually as well. This is a real deal breaker for me and the only reason I've decided against paying for another Lightroom upgrade until Adobe can assure me the bug is fixed and promise a refund if it returns...and I know that isn't going to happen.

[shanebettsphotog]

Many thanks to John R Ellis for merging this back in. I figured that, somehow, this thread was written in invisible ink that Adobe is unable to read 😕 so I thought I'd come at it from another angle. Silly of me, really.

I was also hoping for the addition, alongside Auto Tone, of Auto Exposure that would just set Exposure and leave me with control over all the other controls in the Basic Panel. I know I'm not the only one who works this way, setting Exposure with Auto Tone and setting all the other settings with a preset. I see the posts above. I also think this might help to speed the process up, by giving LR just the one parameter to set (via histogram data?) and not having to make 'creative' decisions for us.

Can't hurt to ask. Invisible ink is cheap.

[bob frost]

Surely you don't have to scroll through the images to get the autotone effects to show. All you do is render new standard previews for the images and have a coffee while they render.

Bob Frost

[shanebettsphotog]

Thanks Bob. That's a great tip!!

Now, if we could just set Auto Exposure and Crop Factor via a Develop Preset with our other settings, we could get it down to a single pass.

[John R Ellis]

Bob, great tip.  I included it in the Workarounds section in the first post.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

John, I was able to duplicate off your instructions and have put in a bug for this. 

[John R Ellis]

Great, thanks!

[shanebettsphotog]

That's great news Rikk. Please also look into the option of a cut-down version of Auto Tone, setting the Exposure parameter only. I believe this would be much less problematic if for no other reason than the Auto process wouldn't be fighting our presets. You set Exposure, we set Contrast, Highlights, Shadows etc.

[John R Ellis]

Here's a bug report with similar symptoms and workaround, using Copy/Paste of develop settings: https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/make-sure-development-settings-are-applied-be...

[Jim Wilde]

John, that might be a different bug than your auto-tone issue. See here (particularly the last 3 or 4 posts): https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2272496

[John R Ellis]

These bugs with Auto Tone, Sync, and Copy/Paste all have the following in common: When you apply the settings to the batch of photos, LR defers the actual rendering of the new image until it "needs" it, e.g. when you scroll to make the thumbnails visible or you export the photos.  But it appears to have at least a few places when it forgets to do that deferred rendering: applying a develop setting after Auto Tone, exporting a slideshow, perhaps others.

These are clearly bugs with the same underlying architectural "thinko". But whether it's the exact same code or different instances of code, only the developers know for sure.

The workaround appears to be the same: Do Library > Previews > Build Standard-Sized Previews and wait for the progress bar to indicate completion.