P: Tethering

Report · Jul 09, 2011

I am a professional photographer who relies heavily on LR for my digital workflow. I tether my Nikon D3 and D3x to LR frequently. I've never had an issue with tethering my cameras to LR until this past week. And, after much frustration and processes-of-elimination and testing the issue across multiple machines, I BELIEVE that the problem has to do with the latest OSX 10.6.8 update when running LR 3.4.1.

You can read my initial post about this problem on Adobe forums here http://forums.adobe.com/message/37883... when I was stumped about why it was happening.

Then you can see my follow-up post about this problem today here http://forums.adobe.com/message/37894... and why I think it has to do with the recent 10.6.8 update.

Please feel free to contact me for anymore information. I really hope you can look into this issue.

Thank you,

Scott Woodward

Report · Oct 17, 2011

Lightroom 3.5 Tethered. (Nikon/Mac) I keep getting the "transferring files from camera" message. A lot. It's like Lightroom can't figure out that it's a bad file and won't stop trying. I'd rather it just give me the "damaged file" message and move on. Seems like a step backwards from 3.4 which may have been a little more stable tethered.

Is there a way to force it to give up on whatever's obviously not going to transfer?

Report · Oct 20, 2011

Just downloaded and tried 3.5 as opposed to the Beta. Now runs at half the speed downloading from the D3 to the MacBook which means it's virtually useless for portrait work and although it didn't crash, after ten frames it was obviously still a massive step in reverse from the time when it all worked. Reluctantly downloading a trial version of Aperture to see if that's any better........sad days indeed.

Report · Oct 20, 2011

This is an historic screw up by adobe to let this ride and never accept responsibility for fraudulent advertising. Adobegate indeed. Is there anyone with the integrity at Adobe who will admit we have a problem and actually own up it and FIX THE SONOF... well you get my drift.

Bob Carmichael
3rd Place APA 2011 Photography winner, sports
7 Silver Telly Award 2010
5 Time nominee World Master Cup Color Awards
Academy Award nominated
Emmy Award winning and yes I know something about photography

Report · Oct 20, 2011

I would like to happily report that under the new LR3.5 software I ran my Nikon D700 tethered to my Macbook Pro all day without any issues. Very happy about that indeed! Didn't have any issues, even after taking time for lunch.
I know there are still people experiencing problems but I just wanted to let you know some of us are running smoothly now.

Thank you Adobe for working on this problem.
(OS Version: Lion 10.7.2)

Report · Oct 20, 2011

I wish I had better news to share, but I tried shooting tethered on location yesterday (D3x, LR 3.5, OSX 10.6.8) and had to give up. Unlike my previous experience that I reported here above, yesterday's session was unstable and erratic and -- after 4 incidents of hanging in a 10-15 minute period -- I had to give-up and move to Sofortbild and a watched folder, which performed flawlessly for the remainder of the shoot. I was doing nothing differently this shoot vs. my previous shoot, but (inexplicably) the stability of tether was vastly different this time. Each time it hung I lost the photo(s) that were buffered, as stopping tether and restarting tether would not reconnect with the camera and I was forced to turn off/on the camera and close/restart LR each time. Is there some way that we can send "Crash Reports" or similar to Adobe so you can see what is going wrong?

Report · Oct 21, 2011

For those of you who are still having problems, I'd like to collect some more information. We've been unable to reproduce any of these issues in-house, so there's probably some factor here we're missing.

If you're still having problems, can you respond with this info:

* Make/Model of camera
* OS version
* What problem you're having - can you shoot anything through tether?
* If so, how many photos successfully transfer before it stops?
* What, if any, steps gets the camera tethering again after you have the problem?
* What length USB cable are you using?
* Have you tried a shorter cable?
* Have you tried a different USB port?
* Are you using a USB hub? Powered or unpowered?
* Did tethering work for you previously?
* When you're tethering, how do you normally shoot? Do you do a bunch of big bursts, followed by a pause to let the computer catch up? Or is it more steady? If you shoot very quickly, can you get the problem to still happen if you shoot more slowly?
* Are you adjusting the camera settings quite a bit as you tether? Does that seem to have anything to do with the failure?
* Open "About This Mac" from the Apple menu, then click "More Info". In the window that opens, select "USB". Your camera should be listed under "USB High-Speed Bus". Click on it and look at what it says for Speed. Does it say "Up to 480 Mb/sec" or "12 Mb/sec"?

Thanks, this info will help us to reproduce and track down where the problem is happening.

-kevin

Report · Oct 21, 2011

Hi Kevin,

I'm a little bummed that, even though I'm still on OS 10.6.7, my problems got a little worse when I went to LR 3.5 from 3.4. I may go back, but that makes me a little oogie, too. OK, here we go:

* OS version
10.6.7 Macbook Pro 15"
Nikon D7000
a handful of different (short-Under 12') USB cables

* What problem you're having - can you shoot anything through tether?
Yes. Sometimes I can shoot many shots (100?) with no problems. Occasionally, though, the whole thing either freezes up (can't take any more pictures), or transfers files so slowly I need to slow down (I'm not shooting fashion here. I mean, I'm shooting once every 2 or 3 seconds when I'm really moving.) But my biggest complaint is I get a file that won't successfully move off the camera and I get the "transferring files from camera" that won't go away, even if you try to quit LR! I wish you could just kill that file with a little "x" or something. I mean, I usually have plenty of coverage. More often in 3.5 than in 3.4, I get corrupted files, too. I usually just assume, for the last couple weeks, that when I import into my desktop machine, I'm going to get the "unsupported or damaged file" message regarding 3-5 files.

* If so, how many photos successfully transfer before it stops?
Sometimes, hundreds. Sometimes, like this morning, zero. I had to reboot.

* What, if any, steps gets the camera tethering again after you have the problem?
Sometimes, a simple "File>Tethered Capture>Stop tethered Capture" and restarting tethered capture is all it takes. Sometimes, however, I have to reboot the mac, power down the camera, or walk away only to find it re-tethered when I return. It's moody. I believe, in 3.4, it was more stable.

* What length USB cable are you using?
12' max. I've tried the extenders and have found them unreliable. I've also used 6' and 3', but had basically the same results.

* Have you tried a shorter cable?
Yes. Doesn't fix it.

* Have you tried a different USB port?
Yes, I have two, and have used both. It seems not to matter.

* Are you using a USB hub? Powered or unpowered?
No.

* Did tethering work for you previously?
Better under 3.4. Horrible (unusable) under 3.3. Here's an estimate:
3.3 worked 10% of the time
3.4 worked 90% of the time
3.5 works 75% of the time

* When you're tethering, how do you normally shoot? Do you do a bunch of big bursts, followed by a pause to let the computer catch up? Or is it more steady? If you shoot very quickly, can you get the problem to still happen if you shoot more slowly?
I shoot moderately slowly when it's headshots, very slowly when it's architecture. Files seem to take different amounts of time to show up in LR. Sometimes a second, sometimes 5.

* Are you adjusting the camera settings quite a bit as you tether? Does that seem to have anything to do with the failure?
Camera settings, though I'm not changing them much, make no difference.

I really appreciate you guys checking into this. It's vexing and frustrating. We spend all sorts of $$$ to have the best and newest and it just croaks. I mean, I know I'm forcing Apple, Adobe and Nikon to play nice together, but it means the world to me to get this thing rock solid. I have clients looking over my shoulder here, literally.

Thank you. Please keep in touch.

Thanks, this info will help us to reproduce and track down where the problem is happening.

Report · Oct 21, 2011

Thanks, Paul. One more question for you - open "About This Mac" from the Apple menu, then click "More Info". In the window that opens, select "USB". Your camera should be listed under "USB High-Speed Bus". Click on it and look at what it says for Speed. Does it say "Up to 480 Mb/sec" or "12 Mb/sec"? I've found that sometimes tethered cameras fall to USB 1 rather than USB 2.0, and I'm wondering if it's happening for you.

Report · Oct 21, 2011

* Make/Model of camera NIKON D3
* OS version 10.6.8
* What problem you're having - can you shoot anything through tether? It freezes up requiring shut down of camera and computer and reboot and playing with the tether. Not reliable at all.
* If so, how many photos successfully transfer before it stops? 15?
* What, if any, steps gets the camera tethering again after you have the problem?
* What length USB cable are you using? 10 foot
* Have you tried a shorter cable? NO do you have one you want to send me. The idea is to be tethered out at least ten feet so you can move around the set.
* Have you tried a different USB port?
* Are you using a USB hub? Powered or unpowered?
* Did tethering work for you previously? It has always been buggy my AC wont touch it.
* When you're tethering, how do you normally shoot? Do you do a bunch of big bursts, followed by a pause to let the computer catch up? Or is it more steady? If you shoot very quickly, can you get the problem to still happen if you shoot more slowly? No just methodically.
* Are you adjusting the camera settings quite a bit as you tether? Does that seem to have anything to do with the failure? Yes and NO
* Open "About This Mac" from the Apple menu, then click "More Info". In the window that opens, select "USB". Your camera should be listed under "USB High-Speed Bus". Click on it and look at what it says for Speed. Does it say "Up to 480 Mb/sec" or "12 Mb/sec"? no sure how to go about this? With camera plugged in.

Aren't these issue you guys should have been addressing when designing this program. I just don't like the casual nature of this. This is a serious issue undermining LR3. Where are the top level engineers going get this fixed??? Explain that one?

Thanks, this info will help us to reproduce and track down where the problem is happening.

Report · Oct 21, 2011

Kevin has been on the Lightroom team from the very beginning and is the engineer responsible for tethering in Lightroom (among other features)

Report · Oct 22, 2011

Kevin,
See my previous posts for some additional detail. Here's the summary you requested:

* Make/Model of camera
Nikon D3.
Have tested with two different cameras, both have failed at one time or another.
* OS version
Mac OS X 10.6.8
* What problem you're having - can you shoot anything through tether?
Tethered connection is "lost" at one or more points during a session.
* If so, how many photos successfully transfer before it stops?
It varies. I've captured several hundred without a problem. Other failures have occurred much quicker, e.g., after 50 photos.
Ironically, while gathering the USB information below tethering failed without even taking a photo! I started tethering, turned on the camera, then started the system profiler. About 10 minutes later when I unplugged the USB cable, LR never recognized that the connection had been lost. The tethered capture window showed the camera still connected although the connection had been lost! I'll try to repeat this and quantify it further if possible.
* What, if any, steps gets the camera tethering again after you have the problem?
Most of the time, I have been able to restart by simply stopping and re-starting tethering from the LR menu.
Other failures had to be recovered by shutting down LR and restarting.
Unplugging and re-plugging the USB cable has never helped.
* What length USB cable are you using?
* Have you tried a shorter cable?
I've tried cables ranging from 6' to 15'. It doesn't matter.
* Have you tried a different USB port?
Yes--still experienced failures.
* Are you using a USB hub? Powered or unpowered?
No
* Did tethering work for you previously?
LR 3.4 running on OS X 10.6.8 was a disaster, and essentially unusable.
LR 3.4 running on OS X 10.6.7 did not experience issues.
LR 3.3 running on OS X 10.6.7 did not experience issues.
Previous versions of OS X and LR did not experience issues.
* When you're tethering, how do you normally shoot? Do you do a bunch of big bursts, followed by a pause to let the computer catch up? Or is it more steady? If you shoot very quickly, can you get the problem to still happen if you shoot more slowly?
A typical tethered session runs for several hours with continuous shooting for periods of a few minutes to 30 minutes interspersed with idle periods of anywhere between a few minutes to possibly an hour. By continuous shooting I mean a shot every 5-30 seconds. In other words, there is no pattern per se, except that "burst" shooting is never part of a tethered session.
* Are you adjusting the camera settings quite a bit as you tether? Does that seem to have anything to do with the failure?
Camera settings are fixed for a shooting session.
* Open "About This Mac" from the Apple menu, then click "More Info". In the window that opens, select "USB". Your camera should be listed under "USB High-Speed Bus". Click on it and look at what it says for Speed. Does it say "Up to 480 Mb/sec" or "12 Mb/sec"?
It's "Up to 480 Mb/sec", and the same on either of two USB ports used.

You didn't ask, but...

-- I always shoot RAW format when tethered.
-- There is usually concurrent activity within LR while shooting, i.e., a client may be browsing and selecting prior photos while new photos are being captured. However, I've seen no correlation between the amount of other LR activity and tethered failures. It sometimes fails while simply waiting for the next image to arrive. The auto-advance setting also does not seem to matter.
--Here's more on my system specs, and the USB configuration:

Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro8,2
Processor Name: Intel Core i7
Processor Speed: 2.3 GHz
Number of Processors: 1
Total Number of Cores: 4
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache: 8 MB
Memory: 8 GB
Boot ROM Version: MBP81.0047.B0E
SMC Version (system): 1.69f1
Sudden Motion Sensor:
State: Enabled

USB device tree:

USB High-Speed Bus:
Host Controller Location: Built-in USB
Host Controller Driver: AppleUSBEHCI
PCI Device ID: 0x1c2d
PCI Revision ID: 0x0005
PCI Vendor ID: 0x8086
Bus Number: 0xfa
FaceTime HD Camera (Built-in):
Product ID: 0x8509
Vendor ID: 0x05ac (Apple Inc.)
Version: 5.16
Serial Number: CC2B2A0K0EDG6ML0
Speed: Up to 480 Mb/sec
Manufacturer: Apple Inc.
Location ID: 0xfa200000 / 3
Current Available (mA): 500
Current Required (mA): 500
Hub:
Product ID: 0x2513
Vendor ID: 0x0424 (SMSC)
Version: b.b3
Speed: Up to 480 Mb/sec
Location ID: 0xfa100000 / 2
Current Available (mA): 500
Current Required (mA): 2
NIKON DSC D3:
Product ID: 0x041c
Vendor ID: 0x04b0 (Nikon Corporation)
Version: 2.02
Serial Number:
Speed: Up to 480 Mb/sec
Manufacturer: NIKON
Location ID: 0xfa130000 / 6
Current Available (mA): 500
Current Required (mA): 2
BRCM2070 Hub:
Product ID: 0x4500
Vendor ID: 0x0a5c (Broadcom Corp.)
Version: 1.00
Speed: Up to 12 Mb/sec
Manufacturer: Apple Inc.
Location ID: 0xfa110000 / 5
Current Available (mA): 500
Current Required (mA): 94
Bluetooth USB Host Controller:
Product ID: 0x821a
Vendor ID: 0x05ac (Apple Inc.)
Version: 0.37
Speed: Up to 12 Mb/sec
Manufacturer: Apple Inc.
Location ID: 0xfa113000 / 8
Current Available (mA): 500
Current Required (mA): 0
Apple Internal Keyboard / Trackpad:
Product ID: 0x0245
Vendor ID: 0x05ac (Apple Inc.)
Version: 1.08
Speed: Up to 12 Mb/sec
Manufacturer: Apple Inc.
Location ID: 0xfa120000 / 4
Current Available (mA): 500
Current Required (mA): 40

USB High-Speed Bus:
Host Controller Location: Built-in USB
Host Controller Driver: AppleUSBEHCI
PCI Device ID: 0x1c26
PCI Revision ID: 0x0005
PCI Vendor ID: 0x8086
Bus Number: 0xfd
Hub:
Product ID: 0x2513
Vendor ID: 0x0424 (SMSC)
Version: b.b3
Speed: Up to 480 Mb/sec
Location ID: 0xfd100000 / 2
Current Available (mA): 500
Current Required (mA): 2
IR Receiver:
Product ID: 0x8242
Vendor ID: 0x05ac (Apple Inc.)
Version: 0.16
Speed: Up to 1.5 Mb/sec
Manufacturer: Apple Computer, Inc.
Location ID: 0xfd110000 / 3
Current Available (mA): 500
Current Required (mA): 100

Report · Oct 22, 2011

I just discovered this issue today. I normally use Hasselblad / Phocus for commercial shooting tethered but, set up my Canon gear with my MBP to calibrate some lenses for a shoot and discovered that nothing works with tethering. Last time I used it was before the 10.6.8 upgrade and it worked fine. Tried a 5DII and a 1Ds MK iii on both my MBP and MacPro and it works for a few frames and as soon as I go into the menu on the camera to adjust the lens, it loses connectivity. Shutting off the camera and then closing tethering then reopening tethering and turning on the camera resets it but, as soon as I change lenses or open the menu on the camera, I lose the connection again. This thread was started 3 months ago and there's no solution yet??!!

Report · Oct 22, 2011

Oh, and Aperture works flawlessly.

Report · Oct 22, 2011

Dan, FYI, this issue for Canon is being widely discussed on this thread here: http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh...

Report · Oct 23, 2011

HI Kevin,

Great to be talking to you in person, BTW.

It says Up to 480 Mb/sec which, I THINK, is actually USB 2 speed. I'm shooting with it at the moment, all day today (and missing football), and it's doing just fine. It senses your presence.

But it's already doing the "transferring files from camera" thing which I assume will just be there all day until I force it to disconnect. I hope that message doesn't mean it's wasting processing power on something futile, because speed is of the essence! So, when it THINKS it's transferring files, but isn't getting anywhere, that'd be nice if it could just give up on it and get back to work!

So, what's your opinion of me stepping back to 3.4? I don't know how to do that, but if it was a little more stable for me shooting tethered, do you think that would be OK?

Keep me posted. Cheers,

-Paul

Report · Oct 24, 2011

Hi
Nikon D3X and D3s
What works flawless is MAC OSX 10.6.7 and either LR 3.3 no issue or LR 3.4 but you can only shoot from the computer not the camera. LR 3.5 works okay from both but has very long download times. The issue occurs with OSX 10.6.8.
The USB lead length has been addressed for all lengths and with the addition of power hubs etc. None of these USB configurations made any difference.
This is an ongoing issue with a lot of professionals who are have to deal with clients. This is a real issue with real repercussions for people trying to earn a living.

Report · Oct 24, 2011

Hi
Nikon D3X and D3s
What works flawless is MAC OSX 10.6.7 and either LR 3.3 no issue or LR 3.4 but you can only shoot from the computer not the camera. LR 3.5 works okay from both but has very long download times. The issue occurs with OSX 10.6.8.
The USB lead length has been addressed for all lengths and with the addition of power hubs etc. None of these USB configurations made any difference.
This is an ongoing issue with a lot of professionals who are have to deal with clients. This is a real issue with real repercussions for people trying to earn a living.

Report · Oct 24, 2011

Thanks so much for all the info; it'll help me a great deal in tracking this down.

Report · Oct 24, 2011

Arthur, are you saying the downloads take much longer with LR 3.5 than they did with 3.4? Do you happen to still have 3.4 on your machine? If so, could you try it again just to verify the downloads are faster with it?

Thanks,

-kevin

Report · Oct 24, 2011

Dan, when you say you're going into the menu on the camera to adjust the lens, what settings are you changing?

Report · Oct 24, 2011

Hi Paul, if 3.4 is working better for you, there should be no problem if you go back to using it in the meantime.

Thanks,

-kevin

Report · Oct 24, 2011

The download is much slower that we had with software like CaptureOne (firewire) and using Softbilt even to a watched folder. This lack of speed was apparent in 3.4 as well. The computer gets the image in 3 – 5 seconds and then it takes a further 4 seconds to see the image in the library. So if you are shooting a sequence then it takes for ever. I have two photographers here who have the said the same thing and if we are shooting models we have to shoot from the camera and then wait for the images to load.

Report · Oct 24, 2011

Firewire? I have a D3 here, and I'll admit, I'm not particularly familiar with this camera, but I don't see a firewire connector on it.

Report · Oct 24, 2011

Firewire is not on the Nikon but we do have a PhaseOne setup which we are replacing with Nikon. The comparison here was the download speed between PhaseOne H20 to Capture One via firewire and the Nikon to LR via USB. The Softbilt was from the Nikon via LR via USB. I hope this makes sense.

Report · Oct 25, 2011

I was calibrating the fine focus on the cameras. Something I've done many times with previous iterations of OS/Lightroom with no problem. Can you give me any idea when this will be fixed? I'm a full time commercial photog and really need to be able to tether for some shoots which means I'll have to buy Aperture within the next week or two if there's no solution on the horizon from Adobe.

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P: Tethering

1 Correct answer