Adobe DNG Converter compatibility

[FSt0p]

Hi.

There is a major design issue with DNG Converter which I want to raise here.

Here on help page (https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/using/adobe-dng-converter.html) it is said:

Note: 

Adobe provides backwards compatibility for the latest cameras for use in older versions of Photoshop, Lightroom, Bridge, After Effects, and Photoshop Elements through the DNG Converter.

How is this supposed to work taking into account system requirements specified on that same page?

Let's say I'm running older hardware or Windows 7 and can not upgrade Photoshop or Lightroom Classic.

But I will not be able to run DNG Converter on that system either.

And if I can run DNG Converter, then I will be able to run latest Photoshop or Lightroom Classic because system requirements are basically the same.

So what's the point?

Am I missing something?

In my opinion DNG Converter should be built with the lowest system requirements possible, which is currently not the case.

[Keith Reeder]

"But I will not be able to run DNG Converter on that system either."

Yes you will - but only versions compatible with that OS.

So Adobe's claim is accurate, but "nuanced" - they don't promise backward compatibility with old operating systems, just with their own software.

In that regard, they're just following the providers of those OS' - MS doesn't support its "antique" platforms either.

"So what's the point?"

The point is to to enable conversion of RAW files that your versions of Lr, PS etc. are too old for - the starting assumption is that you can run it.

Adobe has no responsibility for your operating system, though - that's 100% on you... 

[FSt0p]

Your explanation doesn't explain anything at all.

Lightroom Classic, ACR and DNG Converter are released at more or less same schedule and support same cameras, and they all have similar system requirements.

If your camera is supported by LrC/ACR - you don't need DNG Converter, and if it doesn't - you will need DNG Converter that is newer then your LrC/ACR and will have higher system requirements.

If you can satisfy those requirements you may as well just upgrade your LrC/ACR, and if you can't - DNG Converter will not run either.

Also DNG Converter have compatibility levels for ACR 2.4 (Photoshop CS), ACR 4.x (Photoshop CS 3), ACR 5.x (Photoshop CS4) and so on.

For what?

Following your logic it shouldn't be there because neither of them are supported on Windows 10/11 which is required by latest DNG Converter.

It's funny how people are trying to protect what is obviously not very well though decision.

Come on, exact same thing already happened to Lightroom 6 which is fully 64bit, but can not be run on modern MacOS due to someone's great decision to make it's installer 32bit.

[Keith Reeder]

"Your explanation doesn't explain anything at all."

No, you just refuse to acknowledge or accept it.

[Retune]

Following your logic it shouldn't be there because neither of them are supported on Windows 10/11 which is required by latest DNG Converter.

By @FSt0p

What Adobe officially supports and what actually runs on a given version of Windows are two different things. PS CS6 is fine on Windows 11 (so, to my knowledge, is PS CS3, if you happen to have the activation-free installers), as is Lightroom at least as far back as LR5 . Anyone like me still running some version of CS or pre-CC LR on a current Windows system can use the most recent DNG converter to import files from the latest cameras, which they couldn't do using their old versions of ACR or LR alone.

The other use case would be to generate DNGs of various versions for use outside Adobeland. At one point Adobe were pushing DNG hard as a universal standard, and the DNG converter was at the heart of this strategy. Today's Adobe is probably less concerned about that, since DNG never really took off in the way they intended. They are certainly less concerned about providing backwards compatibility with pre-CC versions of their own software, which it often seems they'd prefer to pretend never existed, so perhaps it's surprising that this relic of interoperability is still maintained. Don't hold your breath waiting for the DNG converter to be compiled for W7 - Adobe have nothing to gain by providing this, since it won't sell any CC subscriptions. Right now, keeping the converter up to date probably doesn't add much to the cost of updating ACR (I would guess there is a common codebase), but forking some version for retro OS users would be an extra hassle.

[GoldingD]

Let's say I'm running older hardware or Windows 7 and can not upgrade Photoshop or Lightroom Classic.

But I will not be able to run DNG Converter on that system either.

And if I can run DNG Converter, then I will be able to run latest Photoshop or Lightroom Classic because system requirements are basically the same.

Being able to run the DNG converter is not the point. The point is being able to create a DNG file that the user can bring into old Adobe Post Processing software. A user not having a version of Lightroom, Lightroom Classic, Bridge, or Photoshop, that supports the camera they have is the point. People with perfectly capable computers say a computer bought just today, say with maximum CPU, maximum RAM, maximum VRAM, the fastest greatest  GPU ever sold, will not be able to use their old ancient Lightroom Perpetual v6.14 on a brand new just produced camera. So, they use the DNG converter to create a nice DNG that will work in old Lightroom Perpetual 6.14 or older.

Another set of individuals that may need to use the DNG converter, are those with fairly new computers, that could use say LrC v 10.0, but cannot use LrC v13.1 on a computer that could run say LrC v10, biut not V13.1. (more of a MACOS issue than Windows, but eventual this will occur on Windows, for example, stuck on Windows 7)

If you go and look at the Adobe document for Adobe Camera RAW supported Cameras:

Cameras supported by Camera Raw | Adobe

you will see lots of cameras that are not supported in say Lightroom perpetual v6.14 and older.

Now to look at that statement again:

Note: 

Adobe provides backwards compatibility for the latest cameras for use in older versions of Photoshop, Lightroom, Bridge, After Effects, and Photoshop Elements through the DNG Converter.

To provide compatibility for older Adobe post processing software, not for compatibility with older OS.

Maybe I should summarize

• Users who refuse to move on to a subscription, who still use old no longer supported Lightroom Perpetual v6.14 and older, but with new cameras, can use the DNG converter.
• Users who computer, no longer supports upgrading to the latest LrC, and who's brand new camera requires LrC v13.2 can use the DNG converter.
• Users who are using a computer with 2 GB of RAM, a 1 GHz CPU running 32 bit, on Windows 7, are out of luck.

[FSt0p]

>> Users who refuse to move on to a subscription, who still use old no longer supported Lightroom Perpetual v6.14 and older, but with new cameras, can use the DNG converter.

On what Windows OS?

DNG Converter requires Windows 10/11, where Lightroom 6 is not supported.

Why there is support for Photoshop CS/CS2/CS3/CS4 and so on in the DNG Converter then?

Am I supposed to run those versions on Windows 10/11 where they are not supported either?

[DdeGannes]

Adobe Camera Raw / Lightroom presently get annual upgrades which allows for the support available in the new version. At present ACR is at version 16 LrC is version 13.

Adobe DNG Convertor 16 to be in sync with ACR 16.

I stands to reason that if ACR/ LrC require a particular Operating System to function then it will also be applicable to Adobe DNG converter.

I am is that situation at the moment my iMac cannot beyond version 11, so I cannot upgrade to ACR 16 / LrC 13 and Adobe DNG Converter 16.

Even if you could import a DNG which was created in version 16 to LrC 12 the new features for LrC 13 will not be applied.

[JohanElzenga]

I think most responders are missing the valid point that the OP has made. If you use an old version of Lightroom on an old OS, then the backwards compatibility of DNG Converter is more or less a myth. The reason is that the version of DNG Converter that is required to convert raw files from a new camera to DNG, won't run on your computer. So yes, you can theoretically convert your raw files to DNGs that can be used in your old version of Lightroom, but you will have to ask a friend with a modern computer to do that for you.

Now of course you can ask whether it is reasonable to expect Adobe to keep old software on old computers compatible with the lastest cameras. My answer to that is negative. I don't think it is reasonable at all to expect that.

[FSt0p]

Adobe don't need to keep old software compatible with the new cameras.

All they have to do is just build DNG converter with older OS SDK (Windows SDK for example), not with latest and greatest like they are doing.

[DdeGannes]

DNG, is no magic application it provides a specific function. If you choose that workflow, then it is recommended you keep your original RAW images so you can process a new version of Adobe DNG Converter.

[FSt0p]

DNG is file format, not an application.

And I know what DNG Converter is and is not.

What are you trying to tell?

That it's ok that it is supposed to provide compatibility for new cameras with older software but have same system requirements as latest software?

[DdeGannes]

Just a thought have you checked if the Nikon Software (the camera manufacturer) can install on your existing operating system? It would have to be done when the Z 8 was released.

[DdeGannes]

See the system requirements for the Nikon software. 

[FSt0p]

Exactly!

That's what I am talking about.

This situation totally voids the reason for DNG Converter to exist at all.

Imagine you now need to work on Nikon Z8 RAW files - what's your options?

Correct - you have none, because you can't upgrade your LrC and can not run DNG Converter either.

In theory you should be able to convert to DNG compatible with your LrC, but that will require compatible system, and if you have one you may just upgrade your LrC.

[Bob Somrak]

  I agree with the OP that the DNG Converter is pretty much useless now.  If you have to have the same OS compatibility as the released LrC/ACR/Lr programs to use DNG Converter than you DO NOT NEED the DNG converter.  It appears it is a waste of time for Adobe to maintain the DNG Converter with its present HW/SW system requirements.  I noticed this Catch 22 a long time ago when I was going to suggest to a user to use the DNG Converter.

[Sean McCormack]

Agreed @Bob Somrak. I've avoided using DNG as it just made more sense to stay with the raw files as most software support them now and there are many conversion options that can even run from within Lightroom. Why convert if the requirements are the same anyway? 

I think the main area where DNG might work is with really old files that have lost support elsewhere, but as Lightroom currently supports all files that DNG does, it's currently moot. 

There were some issues where propietary DNG files wouldn't work correctly and needed conversions (with Leica files from what I remember) using the DNG convertor to resolve. 

As Lightroom offers in app conversion to DNG during import and from the Library menu, it may be that the work to update the convertor is just part of the app update and not strictly about making a standalone convertor.