DeNoise works on Samsung S22 DNGs, but not on Samsung S23 DNGs

[dj_paige]

Lightroom Classic 12.3

Windows 11

NVidia GeForce GTX 1650 (driver version 531.61) (Also doesn't work with driver 528.49)

I have a number of DNGs shot on my Samsung Galaxy S23, and others DNGs shot on my Samsung Galaxy S22. The DeNoise feature works on the S22 DNGs, but I can't use it on the S23 DNGs as the DeNoise button never becomes active. I am thinking there may be a camera setting that may influence this, or somehow this is a bug in Adobe DeNoise, or somehow Samsung has changed their DNGs with the S23. I don't really have a clue how to figure this out. Any explanation or suggestions?

DeNoise works properly on NEF files from my Nikon cameras

I have placed two sample DNGs on Dropbox.

S22: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1uxg6d93if5gav0/S22_20220705_184931%20%281%29.dng?dl=0

S23: https://www.dropbox.com/s/a5rcdt13jz8s4gv/S23_0230423_174343.dng?dl=0

[TheDigitalDog]

Yes, I can confirm the S23 can't be processed. 

This DNG came from the camera directly right? 

Since it is a DNG that can be opened in Adobe Camera Raw/LR, my first guess is it wasn't properly following DNG spec. But we need an Adobe engineer to download it and look it over. 

I'm on a Mac FWIW. 

[dj_paige]

Thanks, @TheDigitalDog 

Yes, straight from the camera.

[TheDigitalDog]

I wonder if a DNG can be converted again to DNG? The standalone didn't accept it but maybe LR can? I didn't try and trashed it, maybe you can?

[johnrellis · Accepted solution]

Did you take that sample with Samsung's Expert Raw app or LR Mobile's camera?  

I can't download your samples (they've been deleted), but this Samsung article says that Expert Raw app saves "raw" photos in linear DNG format (i.e. demosaiced):

https://www.samsung.com/latin_en/support/mobile-devices/professional-photography-with-galaxy-expert-...

Denoise can't handle linear-DNG photos (but maybe well in the future).

You can easily see if your DNGs are linear: In Library, select a DNG and look at the Metadata > DNG panel's Mosaic Data field:

If Mosaic Data is No, then the DNG is linear. 

I assume that LR Mobile's camera saves raw DNGs (with mosaic data), as it does on iPhones, but I don't know for sure.

[dj_paige]

Thanks, John that's good information. I deleted the files as I don't have a lot of free space left on my Dropbox (free) account, I can put them back if anyone is interested. When I first got the camera, I took detailed notes about which photos were "regular raw" and which are "Expert Raw", to see if I could detect a quality difference between the two. Looking back they BOTH indicate Mosaic Data=NO. So I guess that settles the matter now. I just now tried to take photos with the Lr mobile app, and the DNGs are mosaiced (not linear) and Denoise works, so from now on I guess I will use the Lr mobile app if I am taking high ISO photos.

[ArtOfK]

Try using the Google Cam mod app. It's more limited but faster than LR and the DNGs have more detail - also they save with mosaic data.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/working-gcam-for-s23-ultra.4550019/

[dj_paige]

Try using the Google Cam mod app. It's more limited but faster than LR and the DNGs have more detail - also they save with mosaic data.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/working-gcam-for-s23-ultra.4550019/

By @ArtOfK

I downloaded and tried 4 different .apk files, the first three had bugs and I couldn't even take a single photo. The fourth one allowed me to take photos, but it required Google Photos for me to view the DNG image. I downloaded and installed Google Photos (even though I am reluctant to use it as I don't want another photo manager on my cell phone, Lr Mobile does a fine job at managing my photos on the cell phone IMHO), and then another error appeared and Google Photos could not display my DNG image. So they have all been uninstalled, and I consider your claims about the software completely unverified.

[AJ3DVFX]

Currently AI Denoise does not work on "raw" dng files captured by the S24 Ultra's ExpertRaw camera app.

From my understanding, this is could be due to the way Samsung have decided to encode the .dng files, so it might not be on Adobe to fix, however current information on forum posts is not detailed enough to clearly explain why, and what is required to solve the problem.

So before I start, to be clear, ExpertRAW and PRO mode inside the stock camera app produce very different files. For this topic, lets forget PRO mode exists.. and only focus on ExpertRAW files.

Extracting the full metadata from both an ExpertRAW image and Lightroom Camera image, we can clearly see that ExpertRAW is encoding images in JPEG XL & Photometric Interpretation of Linear RAW.

While Adobe Lightroom Mobile Camera captures in true uncompressed and Color Filter Array.

From my understanding, the reason the AI Denoiser cannot work with Samsung ExpertRaw images is because of the Photometric Interpretation used? However a tech from Adobe would need to confirm this as the cause.

Ive attached the full metadata from my two exmaple images to show exactly whats going on under the hood, so theres 100% no asumptions on formats / compression etc.

*Ive <removed> some details in the metadata for my own privacy such as GPS location.

Metadata from ExpertRAW - 24MP

ExifTool Version Number         : 12.81
File Name                       : 20240418_101137.dng
Directory                       : <removed>
File Size                       : 52 MB
File Modification Date/Time     : 2024:04:18 10:23:07+09:30
File Access Date/Time           : 2024:04:18 11:06:47+09:30
File Creation Date/Time         : 2024:04:18 10:27:49+09:30
File Permissions                : -rw-rw-rw-
File Type                       : DNG
File Type Extension             : dng
MIME Type                       : image/x-adobe-dng
Exif Byte Order                 : Little-endian (Intel, II)
Image Width                     : 5712
Image Height                    : 4284
Bits Per Sample                 : 16 16 16
Compression                     : JPEG XL
Photometric Interpretation      : Linear Raw
Image Description               :
Make                            : samsung
Camera Model Name               : Galaxy S24 Ultra
Preview JXL Start               : 8627920
Orientation                     : Horizontal (normal)
Samples Per Pixel               : 3
Rows Per Strip                  : 4284
Preview JXL Length              : 43532517
X Resolution                    : 72
Y Resolution                    : 72
Planar Configuration            : Chunky
Resolution Unit                 : inches
Software                        : S928BXXU1AXCA
Modify Date                     : 2024:04:18 10:11:38
Subfile Type                    : Reduced-resolution image
Preview Image Start             : 113408
Preview Image Length            : 8514512
Copyright                       :
Exposure Time                   : 1/100
F Number                        : 1.7
ISO                             : 16
Exif Version                    : 0221
Date/Time Original              : 2024:04:18 10:11:38
Offset Time                     : +09:30
Offset Time Original            : +09:30
Exposure Compensation           : 0
Focal Length                    : 6.3 mm
Sub Sec Time                    : 323
Sub Sec Time Original           : 323
Focal Length In 35mm Format     : 23 mm
GPS Version ID                  : 2.2.0.0
GPS Latitude Ref                : <removed>
GPS Longitude Ref               : <removed>
GPS Altitude Ref                : <removed>
TIFF-EP Standard ID             : 1.0.0.0
DNG Version                     : 1.7.0.0
DNG Backward Version            : 1.1.0.0
Unique Camera Model             : Galaxy S24 Ultra
Black Level Repeat Dim          : 2 2
Black Level                     : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
White Level                     : 65535 65535 65535
Default Scale                   : 1 1
Default Crop Origin             : 0 0
Default Crop Size               : 5712 4284
Color Matrix 1                  : 0.697265625 -0.1767578125 -0.0751953125 -0.353515625 1.202148438 0.123046875 -0.1064453125 0.2998046875 0.494140625
Color Matrix 2                  : 1.611328125 -1.025390625 -0.02734375 0.0166015625 0.9423828125 0.1103515625 0.0791015625 0.126953125 0.52734375
Camera Calibration 1            : 1.010742188 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1.024414063
Camera Calibration 2            : 1.010742188 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1.024414063
As Shot Neutral                 : 0.498046875 1 0.650390625
Baseline Exposure               : 3
Baseline Sharpness              : 1
DNG Private Data                : (Binary data 21 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Calibration Illuminant 1        : D65
Calibration Illuminant 2        : Standard Light A
Active Area                     : 0 0 4284 5712
Profile Name                    : Embedded Galaxy RAW
Forward Matrix 1                : 0.66015625 0.2373046875 0.06640625 0.1982421875 0.9443359375 -0.142578125 0.015625 -0.38671875 1.196289063
Forward Matrix 2                : 0.3818359375 0.4111328125 0.1708984375 -0.056640625 1.084960938 -0.0283203125 -0.1396484375 -0.935546875 1.901367188
Opcode List 2                   : GainMap, GainMap, GainMap, GainMap
Noise Profile                   : 0.0001 1e-008 0.0001 1e-008 0.0001 1e-008
Profile Gain Table Map          : (Binary data 111088 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Time Stamp                      : 2024:04:18 10:11:38.322+09:30
MCC Data                        : Australia (505)
Aperture                        : 1.7
Image Size                      : 5712x4284
Megapixels                      : 24.5
Preview Image                   : (Binary data 8514512 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Preview JXL                     : (Binary data 43532517 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Scale Factor To 35 mm Equivalent: 3.7
Shutter Speed                   : 1/100
Date/Time Original              : 2024:04:18 10:11:38.323+09:30
Modify Date                     : 2024:04:18 10:11:38.323+09:30
GPS Altitude                    : <removed>
GPS Latitude                    : <removed>
GPS Longitude                   : <removed>
Circle Of Confusion             : 0.008 mm
Field Of View                   : 76.1 deg
Focal Length                    : 6.3 mm (35 mm equivalent: 23.0 mm)
GPS Position                    : 34 deg 53' 56.40" S, 138 deg 39' 27.40" E
Hyperfocal Distance             : 2.84 m
Light Value                     : 10.8

Metadata from Lightroom Mobile Camera

ExifTool Version Number         : 12.81
File Name                       : LRM_20240418_101159.dng
Directory                       : <removed>
File Size                       : 25 MB
File Modification Date/Time     : 2024:04:18 10:25:51+09:30
File Access Date/Time           : 2024:04:18 11:08:32+09:30
File Creation Date/Time         : 2024:04:18 10:27:51+09:30
File Permissions                : -rw-rw-rw-
File Type                       : DNG
File Type Extension             : dng
MIME Type                       : image/x-adobe-dng
Exif Byte Order                 : Little-endian (Intel, II)
Subfile Type                    : Full-resolution image
Image Width                     : 4080
Image Height                    : 3060
Bits Per Sample                 : 16
Compression                     : Uncompressed
Photometric Interpretation      : Color Filter Array
Make                            : samsung
Camera Model Name               : SM-S928B
Strip Offsets                   : (Binary data 26189 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Orientation                     : Horizontal (normal)
Samples Per Pixel               : 1
Rows Per Strip                  : 1
Strip Byte Counts               : (Binary data 15299 bytes, use -b option to extract)
X Resolution                    : 72
Y Resolution                    : 72
Planar Configuration            : Chunky
Resolution Unit                 : inches
Software                        : Adobe Lightroom 9.2.2 (Android)
Modify Date                     : 2024:04:18 10:11:59
XMP Toolkit                     : Adobe XMP Core 7.0-c000 1.000000, 0000/00/00-00:00:00
Creator Tool                    : Adobe Lightroom 9.2.2 (Android)
Metadata Date                   : 2024:04:18 10:12+09:30
Lens                            : Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra Rear Wide Camera
Is Lr Camera Capture            : True
Date Created                    : 2024:04:18 10:11:59
Format                          : image/dng
Instance ID                     : <removed>
Document ID                     : <removed>
Original Document ID            : <removed>
History Action                  : saved
History Instance ID             : <removed>
History When                    : 2024:04:18 10:12+09:30
History Software Agent          : Adobe Lightroom 9.2.2 (Android)
History Changed                 : /metadata
CFA Repeat Pattern Dim          : 2 2
CFA Pattern 2                   : 1 2 0 1
Exposure Time                   : 1/114
F Number                        : 1.7
ISO                             : 12
Exif Version                    : 0231
Date/Time Original              : 2024:04:18 10:11:59
Create Date                     : 2024:04:18 10:11:59
Offset Time Original            : +09:30
Offset Time Digitized           : +09:30
Focal Length                    : 6.3 mm
Sub Sec Time Original           : 664
Sub Sec Time Digitized          : 664
Lens Model                      : Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra Rear Wide Camera
GPS Version ID                  : 2.3.0.0
GPS Latitude Ref                : <removed>
GPS Longitude Ref               : <removed>
GPS Time Stamp                  : 00:41:59
GPS Date Stamp                  : 2024:04:18
TIFF-EP Standard ID             : 1.0.0.0
DNG Version                     : 1.4.0.0
DNG Backward Version            : 1.1.0.0
Unique Camera Model             : SM-S928B-samsung-samsung
CFA Plane Color                 : Red,Green,Blue
CFA Layout                      : Rectangular
Black Level Repeat Dim          : 2 2
Black Level                     : 64 64 64 64
White Level                     : 1023
Default Scale                   : 1 1
Default Crop Origin             : 8 8
Default Crop Size               : 4064 3044
Color Matrix 1                  : 0.697265625 -0.1767578125 -0.0751953125 -0.353515625 1.202148438 0.123046875 -0.1064453125 0.2998046875 0.494140625
Color Matrix 2                  : 1.611328125 -1.025390625 -0.02734375 0.0166015625 0.9423828125 0.1103515625 0.0791015625 0.126953125 0.52734375
Camera Calibration 1            : 1.010742188 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1.024414063
Camera Calibration 2            : 1.010742188 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1.024414063
As Shot Neutral                 : 0.501953125 1 0.662109375
Baseline Exposure               : 0
Calibration Illuminant 1        : D65
Calibration Illuminant 2        : Standard Light A
Active Area                     : 0 0 3060 4080
Forward Matrix 1                : 0.66015625 0.2373046875 0.06640625 0.1982421875 0.9443359375 -0.142578125 0.015625 -0.38671875 1.196289063
Forward Matrix 2                : 0.3818359375 0.4111328125 0.1708984375 -0.056640625 1.084960938 -0.0283203125 -0.1396484375 -0.935546875 1.901367188
Opcode List 2                   : GainMap, GainMap, GainMap, GainMap
Opcode List 3                   : WarpRectilinear
Noise Profile                   : 0.000176124696016 0 0.000176124696016 0 0.000176124696016 0
Aperture                        : 1.7
CFA Pattern                     : [Green,Blue][Red,Green]
Image Size                      : 4080x3060
Megapixels                      : 12.5
Shutter Speed                   : 1/114
Create Date                     : 2024:04:18 10:11:59.664+09:30
Date/Time Original              : 2024:04:18 10:11:59.664+09:30
GPS Date/Time                   : 2024:04:18 00:41:59Z
GPS Latitude                    : <removed>
GPS Longitude                   : <removed>
Focal Length                    : 6.3 mm
GPS Position                    : <removed>
Light Value                     : 11.4

[moved from bugs to discussions according to the community rules - Mod.]

[DdeGannes]

See the article by Eric Chan, this is the full info on the Denoise AI process and it includes future plans. As far as I know, there has been no further change.

Do a search for "Denoise demystified by Eric Chan".

[F. McLion]

https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2023/04/18/denoise-demystified

[dj_paige]

I believe this post and my response below it, which applies to the S23 Expert RAW, also applies to the S24 Ultra Expert RAW.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/denoise-works-on-samsung-s22-dngs-but-n...

But what does LrC show in the Metadata Panel next to Mosaic Data for your Expert RAW photos?

[johnrellis]

Moderators, @Rikk Flohr: Photography, please merge with this thread:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/denoise-works-on-samsung-s22-dngs-but-n...

and change the title to:

"DeNoise works on Samsung S22 DNGs, but not on Samsung S23/24 DNGs"

[Wurstkrapfen]

Uhm no, lets don't focus on ExpertRAW (computational RAW) that is noise free by design anyway.
Focus on the real raw from ProMode that used to work a year ago.

[dj_paige]

Uhm no, lets don't focus on ExpertRAW (computational RAW) that is noise free by design anyway.
Focus on the real raw from ProMode that used to work a year ago.

By @Wurstkrapfen

What about it would you want to "focus on"? If the metadata field named Mosaic Data says NO then you can't use AI Denoise.

[Wurstkrapfen]

That Adobe contacts Samsung and tells them to get their RAW straight again, like it was before the beginning of 2023.

Adobe has other ways to get in contact with them normal users don't have, as complex issues like this will never make it through 1st level Samsung customer support.

[dj_paige]

That Adobe contacts Samsung and tells them to get their RAW straight again, like it was before the beginning of 2023.

Adobe has other ways to get in contact with them normal users don't have, as complex issues like this will never make it through 1st level Samsung customer support.

By @Wurstkrapfen

Okay, that's fine, but why don't you say that in your first message, instead of "focus on" which could mean anything?

BTW, my photos taken in Pro Mode in 2023 with my Samsung S23 (plain, not ultra or plus) never worked in DeNoise. Meanwhile my S22 Pro Mode photos worked fine in DeNoise. It seems as if Samsung made a deliberate choice (for reasons I don't know) to make this change to their DNGs. So maybe there's no need to "get their RAW straight again" because this is how Samsung wants it to be.

[Wurstkrapfen]

Or just some dumb error. If it's deliberate I guess my time with Samsung is over. It's not only de-noise capabilities, those dngs are useless and behave the same as the jpg when it comes to highlight and shadow recovery. Hard to believe it's deliberate as they destroyed the whole concept of RAW in ProMode.

[dj_paige]

Or just some dumb error. If it's deliberate I guess my time with Samsung is over. It's not only de-noise capabilities, those dngs are useless and behave the same as the jpg when it comes to highlight and shadow recovery. Hard to believe it's deliberate as they destroyed the whole concept of RAW in ProMode.

By @Wurstkrapfen

There's no way to know (unless you work for Samsung) whether it was a dumb error, or deliberate. I believe it was deliberate, and there's no way I (or anyone else) can be sure. They have not destroyed the whole concept of RAW in Pro Mode, there are plenty of softwares (including Lightroom Classic) that can reduce the noise of these DNGs.

[Wurstkrapfen]

[UltimaGaina]

Can you still shoot uncompressed RAW with S22 Ultra, that works with LR Denoise AI?

I also have some files from December last year that can be denoised, bur all the files I recently shot in Pro mode, are linear DNG using JPG compression, the same as the files shot with Expert RAW.

Except that Expert RAW file have more bits per sample, due to HDR. Unless I'm missing something, it looks that we lost the ability to have truly uncompressed RAW in Pro mode.

BTW, LR mobile can still shoot 8ncompressed RAW, but unfortunately it can only control the main camer.

[.Michael.]

@UltimaGaina  Thanks for your post. I recently made some DNGs with my Galaxy S22 (before update to One UI 6.0) and they are of RAW-type linear which LrC 13.1 is unable to process via AI denoise, what a pity! Do you have an option to get DNG files of mosaic RAW-type?

[dj_paige]

As stated previously in this thread, use the Lightroom Mobile app to take DNG photos.

[UltimaGaina]

When will LR Mobile be able to shoot with all 4 cameras? Right now it only works with the main camera.

[dj_paige]

When will LR Mobile be able to shoot with all 4 cameras? Right now it only works with the main camera.

By @UltimaGaina

I don't know, I never asked that question. 

But really this is a question for the Lightroom ecosystem forum, not the Lightroom Classic forum, as your question is not about Lightroom Classic. (Although you will likely find that Adobe doesn't announce new features in advance, or even give rough estimates of when new features will appear)