Inspiring

Question

Is there a future for LR Classic?

Forum|Forum|8 years ago
October 20, 2017
14 replies
11695 views

With this weeks announcement one has to wonder what Adobe's strategic plan is for Lightroom. But, there hare hints. First of all let's look at product naming. Why would thay take the name of an existing product (LR CC) and give that name to a new product and then rename the prior product "Classic" (as in "old", or "obsolete")?

To me this is a strong hint that their strategic plan is to move forward with the new CC version and abandon what they now call Classic. If that were not the case, why not call the pre-existing version "LR Pro", or :"LR Desktop" and the new one "LR Lite" or "Lightroom Elements" or "LR Web" or "LR Mobile"? There were so many name alternatives that would have made more sense if their intention was to keep both products. So, I suspect that keeping both products for the long term is not their intent.

Maybe the new CC product is fine for the casual user but the structure of the new LR CC is not conducive to the needs of the professional or advanced photographer. These are people with multiple terabytes of RAW images, These are people with multiple catalogs, these are people who do their own high end printing. These are people who's very livelihood depends on advanced features in both the Library and the Develop module (among others). I have no doubt that LR/CC will acquire the full range of tools from ACR, but the structure of LR/CC seems to preclude getting advanced features in the Library area. And, as it seems to be a mainly mobile oriented tool set the idea of a robust print capability is somewhat suspect (how many people print form their iPhone?).

And then there is caqpacity. Even if Adobe allowed unlimited cloud storage for no extra cost, who can afford the time required to upload 4 or 5 thousand images to the cloud after a shoot? And, without a folder structure (the lack of which in CC seems to be a fundamental design construct) and non hierarchical keywords managing images becomes a nightmare. Not to mention the current lack of smart collections and publish services which many of us rely on quite heavily.

So, I am scared that Adobe may just pull the plug on Classic in a year or two. In fact they have already stated that they will no longer make changes to Classic other than in the Develop Module. And they really have to do very little to incorporate new Develop Module features since they are coded in the RAW processor that is used by ACR for Photoshop, LR CC, LR Classic, and as I understand even Elements. For LR Classic all they need to do is add the slider or panel. So, in essence they are stating that they will not be devoting resources to Classic other than adding a slider or panel to operate a new RAW Processor feature.

Remember when in CC/2015.2 they destroyed the Import Dialog in a misguided attempt to "modernize" the process (read dumb down the process)? Remember the user backlash that eventually forced them to back track? Well, they didn't give up. Instead they are doing the same thing but just packaging it differently and extending it beyond just the import dialog. The seem to be dumbing down the entire product (as they did with the import dialog) but are trying to avoid the backlash by packaging it in a different product. Think about this. What would you be doing right now if they had announced that the only LR going forward was what they now call CC (or even the new CC with all the same develop module tools from Classic) and that the older version would no longer be supported? I suspect this is their ultimate goal but they are stretching out the implementation to avoid the backlash.

If you agree with my reasoning and have a problem with what I suspect is the ultimate goal, NOW is the time to let them know. Don't wait till they pull the plug on Classic which I believe is the ultimate goal. Let them know NOW that if they do they will have another "improved import dialog" disaster on their hands and it will be much worse as there are now some fine competitive products on the market where their customer base may flee to.

NOW is the time to let them know that you want Classic to remain, to be supported, and to be upgraded with new features in ALL the modules (not just the Develop Module). NOW is the time to let them know that LR/CC is not looking like it can be a long term solution to your needs.

Apologies for this rant but fear drives action and I'm scared.

Dan

future of classic

This topic has been closed for replies.

T

Test Screen Name

Legend

I would be very wary of any computer company that promises anything "forever". It shows such a poor grasp of the English language, the evolution of computer systems, and the reality of business, that I would fear for them staying in business: this would make their "forever" particularly short.

nigeld36301247

Participant

LR Web will replace all others as soon as Adobe can. This is the way everyone will go. Devices will only need to be for accessing web-based software solutions and data storage.

D Fosse

Community Expert

nigeld36301247 wrote
LR Web will replace all others as soon as Adobe can. This is the way everyone will go.

This cloud hype really has to stop. It’s fine for casual users with a couple of hundred jpegs, but all of that could fit into one of my bigger files. And there are over a hundred thousand of them. Cloud, anyone?

The term “professional photographer” has come up a couple of times above – as if we’re a near extinct species kept artificially alive in an offline zoo. But we’re alive and well. Demand for what I do keeps going up, precisely as we’re flooded with casual, fast imagery. I work for an organization big enough to have our own Social Media Manager. She sits right across from me, and we work splendidly together. There’s no competition. We serve different purposes, with some overlap.

Yes, internet bandwidth has increased by leaps. But so has file sizes and sheer volume, and the ratio has been remarkably constant over the years. It still takes ten minutes to upload one big file to the cloud. Heck, I even have problems working over our wired company network (other problems aside). That is too slow, so don’t even talk to me about “the cloud”.

The whole idea of “the cloud taking over everything” comes from people with very simple needs, who basically can use anything for their purposes. And then they extrapolate that experience to everyone. Don’t do that.

nigeld36301247

Participant

Of course LR Classic is an endangered species. So is LR6 and even LRCC!

I believe LIGHTROOM WEB is the future. No local software. Log in to LW do any edits, etc. send finished files to wherever. Log out. ETC

Maybe an uploaded/downloader app for desktop and mobile.

I believe this is the direction that most software will go. It relieves mobile devices, especially, of need to process and/or store big data. All done at Adobe, Apple, Microsoft, etc, etc, and data is stored in the cloud servers and databanks.

D

David_Illig

Inspiring

What is your evidence for this assertion? Do you have evidence, or is this idle speculation based on either a fear or a desire?

The argument against this is the fact that Adobe and Apple have collaborated to develop the latest iPad Pro that is “faster than 92% of laptops” to run a full version of Photoshop that will be released this year. Did you see the Adobe presentation at the Apple Keynote? t plan is laid out in living color, no need for idle speculation. Adobe could have put their money into developing a web-based version of Ps (ditto Lr) but they went for the real thing, a local application. I have this new iPad Pro and it is crazy powerful. They obviously didn’t build this to run web-based apps. Indeed, as iPad becomes more and more capable you will see additional developers bringing full-featured versions of desktop applications to iPad.

nigeld36301247

Participant

Sounds good David. I have An iPad Pro 9.7”, and have been happy with its performance and capabilities, and am still surprised what it will do. I actually missed the Adobe component of the keynote, and will watch that if it’s still available. I’m interested to know what you see as the purpose of the Lightroom Web option? Also, what do you see as the advantage of having software on your iPad, vs logging in to use it online & logging out afterwards. Thanks for commenting on my idea. Regards.

C

critterbug1976

Participant

I know what your saying. I feel the same way, and have the same concerns. Thats the main reason I never switched from Lightroom 6 to CC and now.... NEVER will. I will continue to use Lightroom 6 in the short term, but I have begun looking for alternatives. I hoped Adobe would not go this direction, but they are. Im not.

Capture One Pro 10 looks pretty impressive. I will have to change my workflow a bit, but I think its worth it. Im going to give the 30 day trial a test run and see how I like it.

A

annonshp

Inspiring

I agree that Adobe is announcing the end of Lr Classic CC. It's just a matter of time. The question is, when will the new Lr CC address storage shortcomings?

My concise list of issues

1. Why would someone trust Adobe with their images? Are they immune to hacking? Are their backups perfect? Why put photos on a cloud if they are always kept as local copies?

2. What about clients concerned about their privacy who insist on staying off the internet?

3. How will Adobe mange several TB of images? When will they implement a file/folder organization structure?

4. When will DxO, Topaz, or someone have a sufficient replacement for Lr?

Blue Baron II

Inspiring

The current Lightroom CC is, in most respects, a step backwards for Photoshop elements. Except for its cloud capabilities, the new Lightroom CC is less powerful than Photoshop Elements.

As to your point 4, On1 and Correl have products that are becoming competitive with Lightroom and Photoshop. If Adobe does not take database management seriously soon, people serious about their work may start migrating to other products.

Bob Somrak

Legend

I agree with your suggestion for ON1. A friend of mine has been showing me the editing capabilities of ON1 for the past year and the new 2018 version looks very good. The masking in ON1 puts Lightroom masking to shame. These other companies have been making great strides while Adobe has been barely moving with Lightroom/Classic. The speed improvements are good but should have been done years ago. The database in Lightroom is a big selling point but there are so many glitches/bugs in Library the results are very often unreliable. A feature is of little use if it produces unreliable results. I’m hoping Adobe keeps up the effort they have been doing lately going into the future and improves the speed and fixes the bugs and improves the tools. If not, Classic will be like Apple Aperture, knocked off the pedestal by a better RAW editor.

M4 Pro Mac Mini. 48GB

cmgap

Community Expert

One only has to look within Adobe for some sense of rationale.

Julienne Kost, worldwide evangelist for photoshop lightroom, is self-admittedly the poster child for classic and Bryan ONeil another Adobe product expert with Lr/Ps has been using CC for more than a year without looking back... there is no one size fits all.

We each have the power to choose what we want to believe that Adobe will deliver in the future.

Do you believe they are committed to delivering innovation in a fast evolving world or do you believe they are out to get you? It's really up to you. I find comfort in Julienne's posts on her blog related to this newest release of CC.

Adobe isn't perfect - I don't expect perfection and in so far as a being user of multiple applications, things surely have gotten better for the most part as it relates to getting projects done. Newer applications like XD and Spark have taken user feedback, rated the requests, and have been developed and released quite successfully.

There is zero value to Adobe now or ever to disenfranchise its customer base. CC is in it's infancy- in a couple of years it may have a broader appeal. Early adopters not steeped in classic that live in the digital world have an opportunity to be part of what it will look like over time. In the meanwhile it will be a very-very long time before it can take over a 10 year old Classic. Classic (Pro) and CC (Everyone else) are very different audiences and the whole naming issue is a conundrum for sure. Maybe that will change over time? It's certainly not unprecedented.

Califdan2Author

Inspiring

I'm afraid I misspoke about Adobe's statement. The source was articles from The Lightroom Queen (Victoria). One article is here There was another article or email which I can't find right now where she opined that the future changes would be limited to performance and editing. As she is tightly plugged into Adobe people, and has had access to pre-launch versions and I assume product briefings collateral material. I assumed she got that opinion from Adobe.

As for the folks who have suggested to just wait and see what happens that is certainly a strategy. However an ounce of prevention (or persuasion) is worth a pound of cure. Large corporations like Adobe (I worked for Adobe for 5 years) make strategic and tactical plans based on their opinion of what will generate the most profit (that's what corporations do). Much of that thinking is based on market research but much is also based on the ideas of those creating the plans. But, make no mistake. It is much easier to alter such plans in the early stages, when only a small investment has been made rather than at the end of the cycle when heavy investments have been made and people's career's are married to the success or failure of the direction they have been championing for months or years. In other words if the basis of their decision making is flawed for whatever reason (poor market research, lack of appreciation for a segment of their market, aught up in the trend of the moment) I'm sure they'd much prefer to figure that out earlier than later. Just ask the product manager in charge of the disastrous roll out of the LR CC/2015.2 Improved Import dialog. I'm sure he would have been much happier if he knew much earlier how that would be received. Of course Adobe does not announce plans. They only drop hints.

When I look at the hints that came along with this release, I see enough red flags for me to believe that Adobe's plan is to replace Classic with CC. Not now but not all that far in the future. If I am NOT correct (it's happened before) then any feedback we give Adobe now will be taken as confirmation that they are on the right track (assuming we articulate what we rely on in Classic and that happens to already be in their plans). However if I am correct then feedback now will become leverage to those in the company that do not agree with the current strategy or, at a minimum, will give leverage to the idea that CC pretty darn well must be brought up to the same level of functionality as Classic before they pull the plug on Classic.

For example, if you can't live without folders let them know. If smart collections save you hours of labor a week let them know. If your business depends on Publish Collections let them know. If hierarchical keywords are the backbone of your processes, let them know. Or, say nothing and hope for the best. .

JP Hess

Inspiring

I watched the Adobe Max presentation on YouTube today. I know, it's probably available in other places as well. Adobe is committed to making images available anywhere, on all devices, at any time, any place. It's where the company is heading. It's where Lightroom CC is going. The attitude seems to be that Lightroom CC Classic is the old way of doing things, and if you really want to be cool you had better plan on changing. Well, I have a disability and I can't use iPads and smart phones and all this cool new technology. The old way works great for me. Technology is leaving me in the dust. Maybe it's time to find a new hobby.

N

nbirkett51

Inspiring

Is Adobe violating their obligations to disabled people?

And, maybe they are confusing a desire to share 'useful' images with the sharing of 'all' images. By all means, find good ways to enable people to share images that they want to share. But, don't remove people's ability to decide what they want to share. If I make an HDR with 10 bracketed images, only the final combination should be posted to the cloud. And, so on.

I'm fine with not being cool - I never have through-out my life. Why change now?

Conrad_C

Community Expert

Califdan2 wrote
In fact they have already stated that they will no longer make changes to Classic other than in the Develop Module.

I would like to see where that was posted, because that’s the opposite of what the Lightroom team posted on their blog yesterday, where they stated that Lightroom Classic “has an exciting roadmap of improvements well into the future.” And that’s significantly less vague than saying it will be around indefinitely.

It is true though that now is the time to make any concerns known; that’s how the Import dialog controversy was resolved.

D Fosse

Community Expert

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Conrad+C wrote
It is true though that now is the time to make any concerns known

Yes, I worry, and I think it's a legitimate worry. I worry that some people believe that cloud storage is actually a viable option for a 1200-frame shoot of 36-50 megapixel raw files. After all, I hear this on a daily basis from people who should know better (why don't you store on the company's off-site server? Because it's too slow and unreliable, that's why).

Very few people seem to understand the importance of bandwidth.

If you ask me, the new naming should raise a lot of red flags. Classic is just another word for Legacy. The name alone will make it very easy for someone higher up to shut the whole thing down. Sometimes, language creates its own reality.

I don't care what they say now. They also said there were no plans to discontinue perpetual licensing. That didn't worry me, I don't mind subscription - but this does worry me.

R

ronc62810223

Participant

Good "rant." I have the same concerns. Best case, the name changes surely signal a change of focus; worst case they raise concerns about the future of "Classic."

It would seem the Adobe folks are going after the youth market, the highly coveted 18 to 35 demographic, for whom instant gratification trumps high quality. Probably they see more growth there. But I think they're deluding themselves. Anyone who is satisfied with editing a photo on a cellphone screen, or even on a tablet screen, does not need the new Lightroom CC. They can do everything they want with the default photo editor that comes with the phone.

For "Classic" users, the steps required for migrating your photos to the new Lightroom CC are daunting. They look like a nightmare in the making. Below is what you'll lose when you do. (The last two items, "Folders and folder hierarchy" and "Smart Collections" I could not live without. I suspect that ’s true of most Lightroom users.)

NOTE:

Collections of your photos in Lightroom Classic CC automatically become albums in Lightroom CC. The following data in your Lightroom Classic CC catalog won’t be available in Lightroom CC after migration:

Snapshots
Custom metadata
Creations: books, slideshows, and print/web creations
Shares on Lightroom for the web
Map-saved locations
Folders and folder hierarchy
Smart collections

johnrellis

Legend

In fact they have already stated that they will no longer make changes to Classic other than in the Develop Module.

Do you have a link for that?

Victoria Bampton (Lightroom Queen) wrote: "Future development of Lightroom Classic is being refocused on improving performance and enhancing the editing tools. It’s become a bit of a jack-of-all-trades over the last few years, so this new focus is great news for serious Lightroom users." But that isn't saying the other modules will be frozen.

john beardsworth

Community Expert

Better to get it from the horse's mouth rather than the queen's. In a discussion of whether "Classic" is end-of-life, Tom Hogarty writes:

I'm not sure if there are any additional words I can say to reassure this group about Lightroom Classic. Actions are more important than words so please hold us accountable while we continue to update LrClassic over time. As I've mentioned publicly before our focus is performance, editing enhancements and features/functionality that have been strong customer requests over time(the new embedded preview workflow is a strong indication of that type of direction).

D Fosse

Community Expert

OK, let's assume this is what happens, just on good faith.

It is still the most ill-conceived name imaginable. What were they thinking? How can they possibly be surprised that customers react this way?

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