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Large DNG-files in LR 12.3

Community Beginner ,
Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

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The resulting DNG-files in LR 12.3 AI Denoise are exceptionally large. Although claimed that the files should be smaller than the original RAW files (Oly = ORF) they are a multiple of it (90 mb against 20 mb). I expected the file-handling settings to affect the file size, but this isn't the case. Further on the image-size isn't displayed correctly in win-explorer (the size of the jpeg preview thumbnail 1024x768 is displayed.)

Below listed are all files generated with the 12 variations of the file-handling settings. No effect is visible.

GerardKeet_0-1682415365486.png

 

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Beginner , Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

One would expect larger files because of the extended information. I wondered why Adobe claims smaller files. The 'wrong' image dimensions in Win11 are changed into the 'right' by applying Metadata>Update DNG Preview & Metadata.GerardKeet_0-1682424817554.png

 

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Community Expert ,
Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

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Denoise produces demosaiced files - the single grayscale channel has been encoded into three RGB channels. Plus, I assume, a little overhead.

 

The downside of this is that you can't go back and you need to keep both files.

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Community Expert ,
Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

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The DNG also includes a copy of the original raw file, albeir currently inaccessible to the user.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

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Thnx for replying. It's clear that the DNG-files take a lot of storage and makes me decide not to do a mass conversion.

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Community Expert ,
Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

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I would say on this: if your processing of a given image is likely to first pass through a Denoise step and then to end up in Photoshop: a further very large working file (TIFF or PSD) is going to be created anyway at that point. This too is routinely expected to be much larger than the starting Raw.

 

AFAICT denoising must always involve the generation of a large derived file other than the starting camera Raw no matter how you do it. The only choice is: do you need to retain any intermediate data besides the functional endpoints: the camera file (which I personally would never consider deleting) and whatever your final output is generated from? To the extent we can do without either Denoise or PS editing, LrC lets these endpoints be the same - the camera Raw. And that is the most efficient way of all.

 

Or I guess the camera Raw could be removed from Catalog (but not, I suggest, deleted from disk) if you wanted to settle on the Denoised quasiRaw for further editing and output.

 

IOW, it will be for the user of such a workflow to decide whether an intermediate Enhance DNG is necessary to keep longterm. Provided they retain the relatively compact camera Raw file, a new Enhance could be repeated in the future: and perhaps better, with further development of the Enhancing algorithm. The opposite cannot be said. But also the results from a Denoise step can still persist, when incorporated inside a Photoshop working file.

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Community Expert ,
Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

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I would consider the enhanced DNG file as a work in progress file, use it to finalize further edits in LrC / PS, to create a tiff / jpeg dependent on your immediate needs. You can then delete the DNG and keep the original raw image.

It's likely there will be further enhancements to the Enhance / DeNoise AI feature and you will require the original raw image to benefit from them.

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.7.6 BigSur,; LrC 12.3, Lr 6.3.1 Ps 24.4.1,; ACR 15.3,; Camera OM-D E-M1

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

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Thnx for replying. I always save the original raw files for required reprocessing in the future. It's clear the AI denoise is a destructive process making the dng files not appropriate as a base image file.

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LEGEND ,
Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

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It is not a destructive process - by any measure.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

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Although the denoising process is intended to improve the image, it is technically spoken destructive because it isn't reversible. 

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

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One would expect larger files because of the extended information. I wondered why Adobe claims smaller files. The 'wrong' image dimensions in Win11 are changed into the 'right' by applying Metadata>Update DNG Preview & Metadata.GerardKeet_0-1682424817554.png

 

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Community Expert ,
Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

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There's no contradiction. A DNG is generally slightly smaller than the corresponding proprietary raw file.

 

The denoised DNGs are bigger because it contains three channels instead of one, as a "normal" unmosaiced DNG does.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

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Clear, thnx.

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LEGEND ,
Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

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Where has Adobe said that Denoise DNGs will be smaller than the originals?

 

DNGs can be smaller - easy enough to achieve with the DNG Converter, for example - but it doesn't follow that they will be: that's down to how the conversion is configured, and has been explained, the Denoise conversion is not configured for minimal file size.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

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The 'smaller claim' must date from the pre denoise era I suppose and is still valid for dng files not generated by the denoising. Not an important thing once knowing this.

GerardKeet_0-1682451591509.png

 

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Community Expert ,
Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

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The 'smaller' claim is simply about converting a proprietary raw file to DNG, not about the special DNG versions created by Denoise, HDR, or anything else that creates a demosaiced linear RGB DNG. The confusion is probably because many people believe that DNG is raw by definition. That's not true. DNG files can contain raw data or RGB data.

 

-- Johan W. Elzenga

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Community Expert ,
Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

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The quoted pixel dimentions of the DNG suggests that Windows is showing you the size of the preview, not of the actual DNG.

 

-- Johan W. Elzenga

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 25, 2023 Apr 25, 2023

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That's right Johan, see my earlier answer/post on this. You can check the file content with the free software Exif Pilot.

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