LR Classic ignores Nikon Picture Control Effect Level setting

[ckrueger2]

I don’t know if this is a bug or a partially-implemented feature, but I have noticed that the Effect Level setting of Nikon Picture Controls is not reflected in Lightroom Classic’s RAW processing defaults.  Other Picture Control settings *are* reflected in RAW processing defaults.

Camera: Nikon Z9 (rev 1.1)

LR Classic version: 11.1

OS version: MacOS 12.0.1

Repro steps:

1. Set Z9 to HE* RAW (I haven’t tested other settings)
2. Set the camera to some obvious Picture Control, such as Carbon (a B&W style)
3. Shoot your first photo with the Effect Level at 100.  Observe a B&W photo in-camera
4. Shoot your second photo with the Effect Level at 10.  Observe a color photo in-camera
5. Import the two RAW files into Lightroom Classic
6. Observe that the photos look different (as expected) in embedded previews in the Library module
7. Open both photos in the Develop module
8. Observe both photos:
• Both photos have a Treatment/Profile of “Carbon”
• Both photos have a Treatment/Amount of 100
• Both photos look identical in the Develop module

Expected result:

I expected the Effect Level in Nikon’s Picture Control would be reflected in the Treatment/Amount slider, and the RAW file in the Develop module would closely mimic the look of the file in-camera.

Other settings in Nikon Picture Control are reflected in Lightroom, including Sharpness, Clarity, and Contrast.  Even Active D-Lighting and noise reduction (which are general settings) are reflected in Lightroom.  This is why I believe the Effect Level issue is unexpected behavior.

Actual result:

Lightroom Classic does not use the Effect Level setting.

Why it matters:

I use Nikon Picture Styles (or Fuji Film Simulations) to both visualize in-camera and to give a good “starting point” for Lightroom processing.  With Lightroom ignoring the Effect Level, photos look different in LR than they do SOOC, which creates manual work for me.

I can make files available if desired.

[DS256]

Does this note in Cameras Supported Camera RAW address your issue?.

"Nikon High Efficiency raw compression modes are currently not supported on:

• Windows ARM64
• ARMv7 and x86 for Android"

[ckrueger2]

I'm using Lightroom for MacOS, but I re-tested with Lossless Compressed RAW on my Z9, and got the same result as my original post: Lightroom also ignores the Effect Level setting in Lossless Compressed RAW.

[DS256]

I'm surprised no one else has jumped in here but I am totally confused.

By definition, a RAW file is not an image but a recording of the data collected by the sensor. The RAW has to be converted to an image before LrC can do anything with it. Any settings in the camera normally only apply to the JPG created to view in camera and/or potentially saved. As far as I know, nothing is saved with the RAW file but then maybe the Z 9 has embedded this information in the metdata. This means LrC would to read this metadata as initial settings for develop.

I find it interesting that any of your settings are showing up in LrC Develop when reviewing a RAW image unless you applied a preset during import.

[ckrueger2]

I understand the Picture Control settings are generally for JPEG processing, and aren't affecting the underlying RAW data.  (Some settings, like Active D-Lighting might trigger an exposure value change, but that's beside the point!)

These settings are definitely held in the file.  They're in an extended part of EXIF called the Maker tags.  Each camera maker has their own custom-defined data structures in EXIF, and it's up to applications to read this information or not.  For example, here's the EXIF information for Nikon's Picture Control settings:

http://gvsoft.no-ip.org/exif/makernote-nikon-2-tag0x0023.html

(This is community-generated data from a really helpful guy... there's obviosuly more data than is listed here.)

These Maker tags are why you can open a Fujifilm RAW file in Lightroom and have it look similar to Fuji's own Film Simulations, despite the fact that the RAW sensor data isn't affected by those settings.  Ditto for Nikon.

Lightroom (and other apps) already respects these settings.  Lightroom does a really good job, actually, considering that they're adapting to the whims of every camera maker, each with unique settings per camera.

There's just this one that I've found that Lightroom does not respect.

In any case, I was trying to submit a bug report about this... I'm not sure if I did so correctly?  If I just tossed this into a conversation "section" of the forum, my apologies!

[AxelMatt]

...

In any case, I was trying to submit a bug report about this... I'm not sure if I did so correctly?  If I just tossed this into a conversation "section" of the forum, my apologies!

By @ckrueger2

Lightroom doesn't support any picture styles that are setting the cameras it doesn't matter which manufacturer it is (Nikon, Canon and so on). This isn't  a bug. 

What you could/should do, if you interested on such a feature write a feature request.

Here you'll find additional infos how to do it.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/how-do-i-write-a-feature-request/idi-p/123863...

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

This is not a bug.  @AxelMatt 's suggestion of filing a feature request is spot on.

[DS256]

"These Maker tags are why you can open a Fujifilm RAW file in Lightroom and have it look similar to Fuji's own Film Simulations, despite the fact that the RAW sensor data isn't affected by those settings.  Ditto for Nikon."

As Axel and Rikk have indicated, the tags in the MAKER section of a RAW file are not automatically applied.

"Lightroom (and other apps) already respects these settings.  Lightroom does a really good job, actually, considering that they're adapting to the whims of every camera maker, each with unique settings per camera."

The only thing that LrC recognizes, as far as I know is a simulation of the color profile in the camera 

[ckrueger2]

I'll submit a feature request.  Thanks for the guidance and info!  I wasn't sure which way this one goes... I guessed bug because I've seen LR recognize other settings.

That settled, I want to close the loop on LR Classic recognizing maker information, because I disagree with the assertion that LR doesn't support picture styles.  What LR is doing is pretty cool.  I have directly observed Lightroom responding to my Z9's Picture Control settings.

I also took notes of Lightroom's "response" to various in-camera settings.  For example, with the Z9 in "Standard" Picture mode, here's the camera setting, and the resulting default LR setting:

Z9 Picture Control/Sharpening of 3 -> LR/Sharpening Amount of 38

Z9 Picture Control/Sharpening of 6 -> LR/Sharpening Amount of 80

Z9 Picture Control/Mid-range of 2 -> LR/Texture of 40

Z9 Picture Control/Mid-range of 3 -> LR/Texture of 60

Z9 Picture Control/Contrast of 1 -> LR/Contrast of 20

Z9 Picture Control/Contrast of 2 -> LR/Contrast of 40

LR also responds to Nikon's Picture Control settings for clarity, Saturation, and Noise Reduction settings.

I have a sample NEF, but the forum won't let me attach it, unfortunately.

To pull away from Nikon, LR does not pay attention to my X100V's various settings (such as NR, saturation, and shadow/highlight tone).  It only pulls the Film Simulation.  As expected, JPEGs can look quite a bit different from RAW files for the X100V!

These Picture Control settings don't substitute for processing, of course.  But I find it really helpful--for example--to go out shooting BIF and set "Active D-Lighting" on the camera.  When I load the files into Lightroom, the files arive with the shadows already slightly raised.  This makes it quicker for me to cull my take without making a pass through the images to apply a preset or sync a boilerplate edit.

I also find it easier to visualize B&W with some in-camera "processing" already applied, and I like the fact that when I see the images in LR, they look similar to what I saw in-camera.

Anyway, I wanted to clear the air about what I've seen LR do in relation to Picture Controls.  I hope that this feature becomes more comprehensive in the future, because I think some JPEG shooters would shoot RAW if LR were able to mimic SOOC JPEGs as well as it's doing with the Z9.

[markc41708285]

I know this is some time after the original post, but my questions are very similar. It seems that LrC does not reflect the picture controls I've set for my Nikon D850. I can understand why, in a way, because a raw file as just a recording of the data collected by the sensor, and so is not an "image" file. But I think that's being pedantic. It seems, and I can't really confirm this, that fresh images opened in the raw plug-in in Photoshop DO reflect the camera's picture control settings. So if in Photoshop, why not LrC? The review images I see in my camera's viewfinder certainly reflect my picture control settings. I shoot only raw, no jpegs. When I open a fresh image in LrC, for a fleeting second I can see the image with my picture control settings applied, then that is almost immediately dumped and I get just a straight raw image with no changes. I don't think there such a thing as a solution. This seems more a feature problem which Nikon should address. 

[markc41708285]

Replying to my own post is a bit naff, I know, sorry. I've now discovered Nikon's Capture NX-D software allows you to process your raw files while KEEPING your picture control settings. This is all well and good. But I want it to happen in Lightroom Classic.

[ckrueger2]

Me too, Mark.  LR does a good job replicating all the in-camera settings of my Fuji cameras, but it doesn't do so with my Nikon cameras.

Of course I can adjust settings later, but when I use features like this, it's because I know the look I want when I'm shooting, and I want ready-to-go files in LR.  Sometimes I only need LR as a DAM tool.  My Fujis are good, but my Nikons aren't quite there.

Where this "you shouldn't want that" mentality comes from, I don't know.  Nobody considers your photos better if you are forced to start with a RAW file like a lump of coal.