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Question

M2 Max + LRC + external monitor + Develop module = FLICKER

Forum|Forum|3 years ago
February 6, 2023
9 replies
7036 views

Hi!
I took delivery the other day of a brand new Macbook Pro with M2 Max chip (38-core GPU) and experience so much flicker for LRC to be unusuable. This only occurs with my external monitor attached.

More details:
* This was a directly replacement of my M1 Max Macbook Pro (which had fewer GPU cores, less RAM);

* Fresh MacOS install (13.2);

* Same data/LR catalog (LRC 12.1);

* Apple Pro XDR display (latest firmware);

* Preferences > Performance > Camera Raw / Use Graphics Processor = Auto.

The flicker presents as if a new color profile is being applied on and off, every time I move the mouse in the Development module. It appears as if a new white balance is applied (the white balance doesn't actually change — it just has the same screen effect as if WB is changing). This makes the program unusuable for any editing.

True Tone and Automatic brightness adjustments are both off, as is Night Shift.

If I turn this GPU usage to off within LRC, the flickering is gone — but the program slows SIGNIFICANTLY. If turn to this setting to "Custom", "GPU for Display is the most basic setting", and I have to shut it off for LRC to work properly.

Has anyone experienced this? Some web searches revealed M1 (and M2) users had flickering with BenQ monitors. I realize I'm one of the early ones with an M2 Max.

Any thoughts?

Booting into Safe Mode had no impact. Same external monitor, cables (Thunderbolt), data, etc., with my old M1 Max MBP and the new M2 Max MBP.

Thanks for any leads.

macOS

This topic has been closed for replies.

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ericb14197638Author

Participating Frequently

Quick update:

After experiencing this with my M1 Max, M2 Max and M3 Max, I notice I no longer experience the Develop module display flickering with my M4 Max.

I can't speak to whether it is solved with every model/combination. Here is mine:

* 14" MBP with M4 Max chip (16c/40c/128GB)

* MacOS 15.1.1

* LR Classic 14.0.1

* Apple Pro Display XDR (hasn't changed)

While I rarely do it, I can now go full brightness (or 1 step below) and use the Develop module without flicker.

F

fastharper

Participating Frequently

When I updated to the new Sequoia version of macOS, it fixed the issue. I can now be on any of my Macs (M2 Ultra Mac Studio with Pro Display XDR, or M4 Mac Macbook Pro) and use the Develop module at full brightness. Previously the Develop module would flicker at full brightness so I always went Full Brightness minus 2 ticks down. Annoying, but apparently resolved.

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Richard33577702ojai

Participant

Just wanted to add my experience of how annoying this is. I've been using an M3 Max (non-binned) for the last 6 months with the Pro Display XDR and have had to go into the P3 reference mode to avoid the problem - essentially rendering all the HDR goodness of screen useless. I'd given up until I read this thread and saw the 2 clicks down from max brightness trick, so thanks for that!

Its amazing that Adobe has still not fixed the issue. I thought it was just a problem with the M3 MBPs (possibly caused by the 600 nits SDR vs the 500 nits SDR of the Pro Display XDR) as my older M1 Pro never had any issues. Sounds like I just got lucky with that though. I was actually pretty happy with the 600/500 nits theory and it also fits with the need to reduce the brightness slightly on the XDR if Lightroom is trying to push 600 nits but the display doesn't want to... but if people are having issues on M2 machines then sounds like that's not it!

Will use the 2 clicks method for now but its really frustrating to spend £5k on a display and have to not use all of its performance because of a long term bug in LRCC that Adobe seemingly can't be bothered to fix...

Ian Lyons

Community Expert

If you had taken the time to read the thread and did some Google searches, then you'd find that the issue is not Adobe's to fix. The issue is for Apple to fix, although hwo when they fix is another matter. In the meantime, you may find this article by the Developers of Better Display informative https://github.com/waydabber/BetterDisplay/wiki/Eye-care:-prevent-PWM-and-or-temporal-dithering

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Richard33577702ojai

Participant

I actually did take the time to read the thread 🙂 If you'd taken the time to read the replies from ericb14197638 and johndebay on 29 August 2023, you'd find that the issue isn't anything to do with PWM or Temporal Dithering. I have the exact same issue as those users which is clearly isolated to the viewer in LR, where the image changes brightness every few seconds (notably not the UI or rest of the screen). I've not seen this behaviour in any other app, at any point in my 15 years of using OSX with external displays. It therefore seems likely to me that its an Adobe issue.

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fastharper

Participating Frequently

This issue occurs for me on a Mac Studio with M2 Ultra. Connected directly to this is a Pro Display XDR and two Apple Studio Displays. The flickers occurs on the top 2 brightness levels, on any of the displays.

I do not experiene this issue on my M1 Max MacBook Pro using the internal display.

If I use an app like Vidid to trick the system and boost the Pro Display XDR brightness, then I can get around this issue when editing photos in a bright room. But still, this is a very annoying issue.

Also, I do not see this issue when editing on a Windows 11 PC with an RTX 4090 and real HDR display either.

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gregde

Participating Frequently

Having same issue on brand new M3 Max MacBook Pro. Keeping screen brightness "2 clicks below full" also seems to fix it.

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ericb14197638Author

Participating Frequently

Ah, thank you for checking in.

I was wondering what would happen; my M3 Max has not yet arrived.

I suspect it will be the same issue regardless, but what configuration of the M3 do you have? 14-core or 16-core?

My M2 Max where I reported the above issue is the 12-core — though I saw the behavior on other M2s I had in my possession (including M2 Pro). My M3 Max is the 16-core version.

At least we have the workaround I identified.

G

gregde

Participating Frequently

16-core CPU, 40-core GPU.

Thanks for finding the workaround - I was starting to pull my hair out.

dang9834977

Participant

This issue is still occuring on the latest update. LRC 13.01 with a MacBook Pro 14" M2 Max Chip using an external Apple Pro Display XDR. Is there any fix in the works?

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ericb14197638Author

Participating Frequently

Yes, I still experience it.

As an aside, the latest update broke my ability to hit ESC to exit out of the mask window. I now have to scroll down and press Close with the mouse. Wish there was a way to get that capability back. It's a minor thing but one I encounter frequently.

J

Jao vdL

Community Expert

Realize this is an old thread but: What profile are you using for the XDR display? Any of the HDR ones? I would guess you are overloading the driver circuity on it when HDR mode is enabled and it is set at maximum brightness. Maximum brightness on these monitors is going to be way too bright to do any editing of images except if you are in very bright surroundings so not sure why people would be doing that. It will result in images edited to be far too dark (you will compensate for the much too bright display).

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ericb14197638Author

Participating Frequently

Thanks for your reply.

I am using the profile "Pro Display XDR (P3-1600 nits)." I switched to "Apple Display (P3-500 nits)" as a test and did NOT experience the same flickering. It may be that you are onto something.

While I have found a workaround, shouldn't one be able to use their hardware (processor & monitor) at any level of brightness, including the maximum?

Separately, do you have any tips for setting appropriate brightness when one has to contend with an environment that is brighter than optimal?

Lately I've been noticing that many people have brightness on their phone set to <50% of maximum — or even between 0 and 25%. This is very different than how I consume media on *my* phone, which of course can affect my own editing choices.

I'd love to get this right for a wider audience.

Thank you!

J

Jao vdL

Community Expert

Of course you should be able to use the hardware even at top functionality but hardware is not always perfect (not even Apple 😉 ). What is done with these HDR functions is that the areas on the display that are more bright than the standard brightness are done by locally driving the LEDs behind the screen much harder. You can't do this accross the entire display because you simply can't supply enough power. Many HDR capable displays actually dim their non-bright areas when that happens to not run out of power overhead. This will only happen if you drive the display's average brightness at the top of the range. Many HDR capable TVs will do exactly this therefore. I am surprised that this also happens in Apple's displays though as I would have expected them to have the power management figured out.

Lately I've been noticing that many people have brightness on their phone set to <50% of maximum — or even between 0 and 25%. This is very different than how I consume media on *my* phone, which of course can affect my own editing choices.

I'd love to get this right for a wider audience.
By @ericb14197638

Because of this, you should actually run your editing display at much lower brightness. If you edit at extreme brightness like you are doing now, you will end up making your images extremely dark on those users' phones indeed because you'll compensate to the dark side (sorry 😉 ). Typically you should calibrate the normal whitepoint of your display (not the HDR max brightness but the standard non-HDR 100% brightness!) to 100 to 150 cd/m2 depending on the brightness in your area where you work. This is typically around 50% of the brightness scales on most monitors.

johndebay

Participant

Did you ever find a root cause to this problem? I have the same hardware as you and have been experiencing the exact same thing (like you, I also did not experience this on my M1 MacBook Pro). Adjusting the brightness a little isn't a big deal for a workaround, but I am hoping to understand the root cause and ideally fix it "correctly".

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ericb14197638Author

Participating Frequently

I did not. Keeping brightness at 2 clicks down from max does work for me
consistently, though.

S

SASanderson

Known Participant

Hi thanks for posting this. I just took delivery of an M2 MBP two days ago along with an XDR monitor. This afternoon I encountered the flicker when entering the Develop mode in LRClassic. (goes dark, light flash, dark, etc.) Reinstalled a bunch of stuff, restarted machine multiple times, spent entire afternoon troubleshooting, etc. I tried your solution of lowering the screen brightness a notch or two and it works. Thank you and thank heaven!

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ericb14197638Author

Participating Frequently

I have a replacement in hand (base model M2 Max 14" — 12-core CPU, 30-core (not 38) GPU, less RAM) — and it does, in fact, exhibit the same behavior.

However, I have isolated things a bit further. The flickering only occurs in this scenario:
* Lightroom Classic Develop module;

* MacOS 13.x;

* External monitor connected;
* Brightness (using F1/F2 keys) at maximum or 1 step below max)!

Again, this issue did NOT occur with my M1 Max MBP 14"; however, I read that some people did/do experience flickering with their M1 Max, so I thought it might be a case of a bad GPU.

Odd it only appears in LRC & in the Dev module at that.

Ian Lyons

Community Expert

Screen flicker with external displays is a fairly common complaint for M1 based computers dating back to when they were first introduced. In fact, some display vendors have even published guidance of the how it may be fixed (e.g. BenQ document linked below).

I see it occassionally when I my BenQ SW271C On, but have never seen it when the NEC 30-inch SpectraView Refernce display is connected. Needless to say, I rarely use the BenQ, but that's more because macOS and 4K displays are not the best of friends when it comes to choosing a non integer resolution.

There's a lengthy thread on Macrumours discussing (complaining) about the issue https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-pro-m1-external-screen-flickering.2325279/

https://www.benq.com/en-us/knowledge-center/knowledge/how-to-fix-mac-m1-m2-external-monitor-flicker.html

FWIW, in my case none of the suggestions by BenQ helped.

Ian Lyons

Community Expert

Thank you for the reply!

Interestingly (or perhaps only interesting to me), my M1 Max exhibited no flickering at all.

I was aware of the BenQ suggestions — none worked for me, either.

It's interesting that it is only happening at 15/16 or 16/16 brightness (macOS slider). If that continues to work, it's a usable workaround for me.

Does anyone know how to preserve the brightness setting on a Macbook Pro? Every time I open it up, it reverts to 50% brightness (no automatic settings are on). Would be great if I could have a stored setting for the built-in display and for the external (Pro XDR) monitor.

I don't think Apple considers this to be their problem because Adobe LRC is involved.

THANKS!

You can create display presets for the interrnal and external Mac displays. More details can be found in the following videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nxa8r9DIzg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJuruNqxiP4

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