Known Participant

Question

macOS Ventura + Lightroom Classic Printing Is Broken

Forum|Forum|2 years ago
August 11, 2023
9 replies
9366 views

macOS Ventura 13.5 / Lightroom Classic 12.4 / Camera Raw 15.4 / Canon imagePROgraf PRO-300

Just to save you any unecessary breath or time: I've got 25+ years of printing in profiled & calibrated workflows – from the offset printing days through today. So, I'll know what you're talking about, and you can assume I know how to reboot a computer or find an ICC profile.

Okay, printing from Lightroom used to be one of my favorite things to do before macOS Ventura. I actually looked forward to printing sessions because we seemed to have reached the pinnacle of digital photos to analog prints in a one-stop workflow – never having to leave Lightroom at all. Plus, being able to create "Saved Prints" and know that everything was going to just work months later, that was the best feature of the Print module yet! But all that was before macOS Ventura came out. Since then, printing from Lightroom has been a disaster. Tons of wasted time, materials, and patience.

But I don't think it's just macOS Ventura, nor just Lightroom Classic. It's when the two of them meet where things break. And, they're breaking bad.

I'm using a Canon imagePROgraf PRO-300, and can print just fine using ICC profiles from Canon's own Professional Print & Layout app. And, like everyone else, I can print just fine using ICC profiles when using Photoshop. Heck, I can even get macOS's own Preview.app to print correctly with a Color Sync profile – and right from its own print dialog no less! I simply cannot use ICC profiles from Lightroom Classic anymore. Following the suggestion to just double-check the print dialog for each and every print worked for one printing session, and then never again. So as so many of you have also seen, it's total voodoo now what might work and when it might work in Lightroom on macOS Ventura.

So, I sure hope others chime in here if they're still stuck, and really hope Adobe looks into this issue – it's been documented since macOS Ventura came out a year ago! And only Adobe posesses the clout to get Apple to work with them on any bugs from Cupertino.

macOS

W

widphoto

Participant

I have spent weeks attempting to fix this Lightroom Classic printing preset bug. I could not fix it but was able to find a workaround that solved my issue. The issue is either Adobe or Apple, does not appear to be Epson. I cannot save presets reliably in LRC. So I create the desired preset in Apple Preview app, then use that preset and its settings in Lightroom Classic. This has worked for me, for how long I do not know. Fingers crossed.

System: Mac Mini M4, Sequoia 15.3.1, LRC 14.2

alanl8

Participating Frequently

Good to hear you've got a workaround for the preset creation issue (I thinki that's effectively the method I suggested in my "Issue 1" notes earlier, using another application, like TextEdit or in your case Preview, to create the preset). However, in my experience, although the presets can be created this way, it was still a bit of a lottery whether the correct ICC profile would be used from the preset, when you select it and click Print (as a result of the other issues). I'd be interested to know if you get 100% success, just by choosing your preset (without first selecting the Default Settings and saving, as per my "Issue 3" notes), as that's really the most significant issue here... the somewhat random selection of the wrong ICC profile when printing from LrC, resulting in the colours being incorrect. The rest of the issues can be largely worked around.

W

widphoto

Participant

Will keep you posted. I thought I was going insane with this unreliable printing behavior in LRC. The Epson rep who screenshare the issue with me also thought he was going crazy when he saw the behavior. We repeatedly attempted to force the bad behavior with our/your workaround using Preview and were unable to get it to fail in the short term. Time will tell.

Bob Somrak

Legend

Printing to my Canon Pixma Pro 100 with Sequoia 15.3.1 works fine for both Printer Manages Color and Application Manages Color in LrC 14.2. I was running Monterey as my computer did not support anything newer but now can run the latest. Upon switching to the new M4 computer I had to recreate all my printer setups but it is working fine. Not sure if or when Apple will break this again. Apple has lots of practice doing that.

M4 Pro Mac Mini. 48GB

J

jrp2012

Known Participant

Printing clearly works for some, but not others, irrespective of printer brand. What we have not discovered is what the difference between the lucky and the unlucky is. A previous installation of the Airport driver? An SPI / API change? It does not help that there is more than one issue: presets that don't stick and (so) an inabilty to set app v printer colour management reliably.

alanl8

Participating Frequently

The challenge here is there are multiple issues (do to with presets, colour matching, etc) that I listed four of earlier in this thread. On top of that, the behaviour for Canon users and Epson users can differ when following exactly the same process (I have first-hand experience of seeing that). To date I've been unable to pin down which external factors affect the state of the print system - even printing from another application, between print jobs in LR can affect this. As @MarkDS said above, using Canon Professional Print Layout or Epson Print Layout (in my case) does ensure a reliable print workflow. It's not ideal and shouldn't be necessary but I've got used to exporting from LR to EPL now, using Epson's LR plug-in, rather than using the Print module and it's saved a lot of wasted ink and paper.

Sadly, I've pretty much given up hope of Adobe/Apple ever fixing this. As there are multiple issues; some which are definitely Apple's to fix and others which might lie somewhere between Adobe and Apple; I can see it being a challenge to pin down the causes based on multiple user reports, which could be due to a combination of the different issues. There will also be a many users that don't even notice this problem exists (it depends on how critical you are of printed colours being as close to your intended output as possible!) so it won't be top of either Apple or Adobe's agenda to fix. That's not an excuse for it to be ignored though, as it's been evident for three MacOS releases now! It's just disappointing that something we all used to rely upon for years (until Ventura) is no longer something we can put trust in, making the Print module largely redundant in a calibrated workflow.

D

DaveLInSF

Inspiring

I just ran into this problem with LrC 14.0.1, MacOS Sonoma 14.6.1 and Canon Pro-300 printer. Has anyone tried MacOS Sequoia 15 to see if the bug was fixed there?

H

hr114Author

Known Participant

I tried it right away, but alas the bug persists. If however I output the photo to a TIFF file and then print in Canon's own Professional Print & Layout software, it prints just as expected – honoring the ICC profile chosen for the target printer/paper. Infuriating!

alanl8

Participating Frequently

I've not dared upgrade to Sequoia yet but useful to know that the issues still exist (albeit disappointing and rather predictable, given the lack of attention this has been given over the last couple of years) . Having moved to using Epson Print Layout, instead of Lightroom's Print module, I've had no issues and it works every time (like Canon Professional Print & Layout) and I'll continue to use this approach when I eventually upgrade to Sequoia.

J

Jean Claude Irminger

Participant

I do have exactly the same problems with the new Mac OS Sonoma. Printing from Lightroom classic is broken. It used to work like a charm and since I updated to Sonoma it is a big mess! Why is nobody from Adobe responding to your posts?? Does Apple and Adobe work together?

H

hr114Author

Known Participant

Okay, here's my latest update.

TL;DR: Printing in the latest Lightroom Classic, v13.1 running on the latest macOS, v14.3.1 (Sonoma) is still broken. Period. If you want your Canon printer to output prints like you expect, simply use the Canon RIP software – Professional Print & Layout. That's it. Skip all other steps. It works.

NONE of the previous ICC profiles (or settings) work like they used to under macOS v12 (Monterey). That version of LR and macOS printed like a dream – without having to do anything else. Now, Saved Prints nor longer work, ICC Profiles used by LR actually make things worse (no matter what voodoo workarounds we all tried above), and finally telling LR to let color matching be "Managed By Printer" gets closer to what we had before, but just barely. And frankly, using the "Managed By Printer" setting fails miserably on many images that were printing just fine before.

This all reminds me of 30 years ago when I was trying to get Windows for Workgroups 3.11 actually, well, *working* – it never quite did, and the finger pointing between PC makers, Microsoft and software vendors always left me holding a broken bag of results. I didn't have the time or patience for it then (I switched to NEXTSTEP, and have never looked back) and I certainly don't have the time let alone patience for this BS now.

Just go download Canon's Professional Print & Layout software. It is nowhere near as polished or sophisticated as Adobe's own Print panel in LR, but at least it works. It has a steep learning curve (because it is not at all intuitive or clearly documented) I spent a few nights learning it and its limitations, and now I get the fully color managed workflow and output like I was enjoying before. One note that might save you hours of head banging: If you choose to use the app's LR plug in, be aware that you can only print a single image at time. And there's no way of saving the layout or print settings once you're finished like there was in LR. Lastly, if you want to print multiple images in a session, you have to output to TIFF or JPEG first, and then bring them into Canon PP&L. (This took me an entire night to figure out – I had never seen an app that didn't have an "File-Open" or drag-n-drop functionality before)

Canon's Professional Print & Layout is a full RIP (raster image processor) that knows how to take a color managed file, apply an ICC profile for the target printer/paper combo, and output a stunning result.

T

thomasp52746878

Participant

How is it that we still have these problems? Its been almost two years of this nonsense. Any machine I am using to print with in my studio is still on Monterey but I am noticing things starting to break becasue all fo the software is being updated for the newest 2 generation later OS. This is siimply disgraceful on the part of Adobe and Apple. I'm guessing primarilyl Apple. They cant get their heads out of there stratospheric A##es long enough to realize professionals are relying on their machines. Their mchines are better than ever and the reliability of the OS being usable is at an all time low. I'm simply fed up.

H

hr114Author

Known Participant

Okay, just a hopeful follow-up: While I have not done any extensive nor comprehensive testing, it would seem that printing from LRC 13.0 with previously used ICC profiles is working again with macOS Sonoma (14.0)!

I did indeed delete all my previously created saved prints, plus any print presets I had from before Sonoma, and I did use the voodoo from this thread of creating a default "Print Settings" setup from the lower left-hand corner of the LR Print module before trying anything else. From there, I set the Color Management panel to the ICC profile I want. Then I do indeed double-check the settings via the Printer button in the LRH corner, and if the Color Sync radio button is chosen (but still greyed out) in the Printer Options –> Color Matching section, then I just check that the paper type and quality levels are still right, and then print normally from there.

I have to say, the results are what I am expecting, and the same as I was getting before!

I am still quite discouraged at how complicated and tedious this all is compared to before Ventura (where all our problems started arising) Also, I really want to be able to set up and recall Presets in the macOS print dialogue. And I really, really miss being able to rely on the LRC Saved Print feature – that was a real time and headache saver!

R

Robbix

Participating Frequently

Upgraded my Mac to to 14.1.1 - no change - colors are screwed up without the workaround described above. The good news is that the work around is working ... but considering to have my Paperbin with Moterey as a printer spooler ... 😞

Computer - Mac Studio

macOS 14.1.1

LR 13.0.1

P900 Driver 13.04

C

Cardulajoie

Participant

Thanks to all for the helpful discussion and workaround ideas for this issue.

I ran into the same problem after multiple software upgrades including a Monterey to Ventura 13.5.2 upgrade on September 17th (thinking it was now safe to do so). My gear includes a 2019 MacBookPro with OS13.5.2, Lightroom Classic 12.5, and an Epson P900 printer with printer driver version 12.62 and Firmware 04.52.KI01N9.

Epson Tech Support, reported having received prior reports of printer preset settings being "dropped". In their view it is a problem with Adobe Lightroom Classic (and apparently also Adobe Photoshop) and they suggested I contact Adobe.

I did find some helpfull workaround ideas on the Lightroom Queen Forum. Here is one work around that worked for at least one printing session (but has not been thoroughly tested multiple times):

Create a new printer preset using Apple's Preview app (Word works as well).
- After opening the printer driver in Preview, select the correct printer
- In Printer Options -> Color Matching: Select “Epson Printer Controls” (I believe this defaults to the EMI settings)
- In Printer Options -> Printer Settings: Set color mode to "off" and quality settings as desired.
Save the preset with the printer (P900 in my case) and “Print Job Preset” selected.
Then switch to the LR Classic Print Module's "Printer Settings" button. Select the printer and your newly created printer driver preset. Then check Printer Options -> Printer Settings and hit “Ok”. The next window that appears will have a “Save” button. DO NOT CLICK “SAVE” ! Instead, hit “Cancel”. Clicking the "Save" button seems to corrupt the preset without warning and leads to incorrect print output despite printer driver settings all looking correct.
Now click on the “Printer” button at bottom right of the Lightroom print module. Select the correct printer and newly created preset. Then check “Printer Options -> Printer Settings” to be sure they are correct (optional). Then click "Ok" and then “Print” in the next window.

Do we have any feedback from an Adobe engineer as to whether this problem is being addressed?

MacOS 10.15.7 Lightroom Classic 10.1

R

Robbix

Participating Frequently

Thank you so much - this worked for me. I started to use my old Paperbin for printing, as a work around. Yes, I spent a fortune on ink and paper before I got an idea on that is failing. Now I will make a print of a calibration page each time something changes (highly recommended), because it seems that Apple and Adobe have no control of whats going on. Scribling down in some simple log what was upgraded when is also a great idea.

Sonoma scares me ... another bucket of ink before things settle again 😞 I will definitely not be an early adopter here! My Mac Studio is the last Mac - paying all that money for a nice box?? No ability to upgrade SSD or memory, and untested software (that they dont care to fix) on top if it? They havent got Ventura right before there is a new macOS trying to sneak in ....

R

Robbix

Participating Frequently

I have some follow info. Upgraded LrC to 13.0.1 - no change which means colors are screwed up without the workaround described above.

I have attached the test image where you easily can see where colors differ. The only difference is the workaround described above. The printer is Epson P900.

Just for completeness:

Computer - Mac Studio

macOS 13.5

LR 13.0.1

P9000 Driver 13.04

L

lloyd_pdx

Known Participant

Thanks for sharing your experience. Been pulling my hair out until now, but reading that this is a definite thing somehow helps me deal with it. Frustrating, because like your printer my Pro-1000 usually makes very satisfying prints. I'm trying the "managed by printer" route to see if I can live with that for now.

L

lloyd_pdx

Known Participant

While I appreciate the effort peole have put into the workarounds, as of tonight I've given up printing to my Canon Pro-1000 from LrC and PS on Ventura. I can't roll back my OS on my Studio which is a solution for some. I mean, color management IS rocket science but it used to work, right? I've messed around for weeks, trying workarounds to no avail and I'm tired of being frustrated and angry. Life is too short to keep geting mediocre, unpredictable prints and wasting expensive ink and good paper.
HOWEVER, I'm happy to report that Canon's Professional Print and Layout utility has now successfully and immediately output prints that match my calibrated and hardware-profiled monitor. An extra step to export an image to then drop into CPPL, but it works. Here's hoping Apple and Adobe get synched up on this issue because it sure is nice getting good prints right from LR and PS.

S

ssickels

Known Participant

Someone pointed me to your post. I've been having problems printing from LR (but not from Photoshop), encountering what sounds like the same bug you've run into.

My post about it is here. Ugh.

H

hr114Author

Known Participant

I'll read your whole thread thoroughly again, but I understand where you where you are mentally with feeling like you're losing your mind. My problem is even simpler: Everything was working like a dream in Lightroom Classic on the previous macOS. Not until Ventura did I ever experience these issues. Period.

Additionally, I only use three different papers, each with a manufacturer provided ICC profile, and all have produced very, very good results. And, all still produce fine results if I just use Photoshop or Canon's Professional Print & Layout app. The problem is with Lightroom Classic on macOS Ventura. I don't care who's fault it is, it's simply just broken. Period.

While it would require more time, paper and ink, I might make one suggestion: Only change one parameter at a time, and make notes of each result. For instance, pick one image you have printed sucessfully in the past, and now print it twice from LrC on Ventura. Print one with the ICC profile (which we agree breaks things) and then print one without. That is, "Color Management: Managed by Printer". Luckily for me, when I do this, I get results that are easily 95-99% of what I was getting before with ICC profiles. The resulting prints are still not spot-on for color critical work, but for more artistic stuff, they suffice for now.

Hang in there, maybe somebody will notice this and look into it. Or, maybe they're waiting for the next version of macOS until they try and fix things! 😃

If you have any other questions I might be able to answer (and I didn't really answer anything here) please don't hesitate to ask; I'll do what I can.

alanl8

Participating Frequently

Thanks for the insights, but the process still remains murky, quite honestly. I'll try to do some testing again this weekend when I'm printing again. Could someone from Adobe please tell us why there's a "Print Settings" button in the lower legft-hand corner of the Print module, and also a completely redundant "Printer..." button in the lower right-hand corner of the same module? Why?!? The logic here has (always) seemed completely confusing for the end user. I have never once set something with the left button that I wasn't going to already set in the right button. Now, it's just more work to confirm that they both match.

There is definitely some unnecesary duplication between the "Print Settings..." and "Printer..." buttons! Before this issue arose in Ventura, I used to ignore the "Print Settings" window, set all of the margins, ICC profile, etc in Lightroom and then finally use the Printer dialog, to select a previously defined preset for my paper type, before hitting Print in that window. However, the workaround I described only seems to work from the "Print Settings" window, where it's essential you click on the "Default Settings" option in the Presets list (even if it's already selected), then Save that window (to close it). This resets anything that Lightoom isn't correctly setting prior to print (when Lightroom is managing colour, via a calibrated ICC profile for the paper type, in the Color Management section of the print module).

One thing that has become apparent, in some further testing since my original post, is there's another bug in Ventura's print dialog that affects every application, except the behaviour in Lightroom is masked by the need to reset to Default Settings in the "Print Settings" window (I won't go into detail here but so far I have identified 4 separate defects that relate to the Ventura print dialog, some of which affect all applications, others just Lightroom).

You may find that with the Canon printer driver, after resetting to Default Settings, you also need to ensure that the Rendering Intent is set to "No Color Correction" rather than "Perceptual (Photo)". I think this is under Print Settings... > Printer Options > Print Settings/Quality & Media. In theory this setting should be disabled and ignored when Lightroom is managing colour, but I've witnessed this becoming enabled and editable, on a Canon set up, after resetting to Default Settings (this behaviour seems to be different to that with the Epson driver). I think this compounds the issue on a Canon set up, as it could be that the system is using Canon Color Matching on top of Lightroom's selected ICC profile, which would certainly result in incorrect colours being produced, if that is the case.

I can provide some more detail on this particular Canon-related behaviour if that helps.

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