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Major color shifts with the new AI denoise in Lightroom 12.3

Community Beginner ,
Apr 19, 2023 Apr 19, 2023

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Look at all the green addedd to the background very odd and not uniform so diffcult to fix without masking.  This was applied at level 40.   Colors did not shift on model except on the hair which was simular t the background.  Model's face blurred on purpose.  Just reporting findings not reallt looking for how to fix it.   

CharlesRuscher_1-1681932542162.png

CharlesRuscher_2-1681932736687.png

 

 

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Adobe Employee ,
Apr 19, 2023 Apr 19, 2023

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Please give us the model of your GPU. 

Thanks!

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 19, 2023 Apr 19, 2023

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Nivda RTX3050

 

Lightroom Classic version: 12.3 [ 202304101834-a085245c ]
License: Creative Cloud
Language setting: en
Operating system: Windows 10 - Home Premium Edition
Version: 10.0.19045
Application architecture: x64
System architecture: x64
Logical processor count: 20
Processor speed: 3.4GHz
SqLite Version: 3.36.0
CPU Utilisation: 1.0%
Built-in memory: 65345.7 MB
Dedicated GPU memory used by Lightroom: 5971.1MB / 8031.0MB (74%)
Real memory available to Lightroom: 65345.7 MB
Real memory used by Lightroom: 8709.1 MB (13.3%)
Virtual memory used by Lightroom: 16173.4 MB
GDI objects count: 1383
USER objects count: 4244
Process handles count: 398329
Memory cache size: 0.0MB
Internal Camera Raw version: 15.3 [ 1451 ]
Maximum thread count used by Camera Raw: 5
Camera Raw SIMD optimization: SSE2,AVX,AVX2
Camera Raw virtual memory: 2144MB / 32672MB (6%)
Camera Raw real memory: -13MB / 65345MB (0%)
System DPI setting: 96 DPI
Desktop composition enabled: Yes
Standard Preview Size: 2560 pixels
Displays: 1) 2560x1440, 2) 1920x1080
Input types: Multitouch: No, Integrated touch: No, Integrated pen: No, External touch: No, External pen: No, Keyboard: No

Graphics Processor Info:
DirectX: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 (31.0.15.2824)
Init State: GPU for Export supported by default
User Preference: GPU for Export enabled

Application folder: C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic
Library Path: C:\_LR-CATA\CFR-Master-2-v12.lrcat
Settings Folder: C:\Users\Arendel\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Lightroom

Installed Plugins:
1) AdobeStock
2) Flickr
3) HDR Efex Pro 2
4) Nikon Tether Plugin
5) ON1 Resize AI 2023
6) SmugMug
7) Tourbox

Config.lua flags: None

Adapter #1: Vendor : 10de
Device : 2488
Subsystem : 404e1458
Revision : a1
Video Memory : 8031
Adapter #2: Vendor : 1414
Device : 8c
Subsystem : 0
Revision : 0
Video Memory : 0
AudioDeviceIOBlockSize: 1024
AudioDeviceName: $$$/dvaaudiodevice/SystemDefaultAndEffectiveDeviceName=System Default - Headset Earphone (Corsair HS60 PRO Surround USB Sound Adapter)#{comment}DVAAU-4201250: Open the audio hardware preferences page.
AudioDeviceNumberOfChannels: 2
AudioDeviceSampleRate: 48000
Build: LR5x19
Direct2DEnabled: false
GL_ACCUM_ALPHA_BITS: 16
GL_ACCUM_BLUE_BITS: 16
GL_ACCUM_GREEN_BITS: 16
GL_ACCUM_RED_BITS: 16
GL_ALPHA_BITS: 0
GL_BLUE_BITS: 8
GL_DEPTH_BITS: 24
GL_GREEN_BITS: 8
GL_MAX_3D_TEXTURE_SIZE: 16384
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE: 32768
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_UNITS: 4
GL_MAX_VIEWPORT_DIMS: 32768,32768
GL_RED_BITS: 8
GL_RENDERER: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070/PCIe/SSE2
GL_SHADING_LANGUAGE_VERSION: 4.60 NVIDIA
GL_STENCIL_BITS: 8
GL_VENDOR: NVIDIA Corporation
GL_VERSION: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 528.24
GPUDeviceEnabled: false
OGLEnabled: true
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Engaged ,
Apr 19, 2023 Apr 19, 2023

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You have written that your GPU is an NVIDIA RTX 3050, but your system info states that you have an NVIDIA RTX 3070.

 

Your driver is not the latest version. Please update and try again.

 

I have an NVIDIA RTX 3060 and have no issuses with Denoise on Nikon NEF files.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 20, 2023 Apr 20, 2023

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I have updated the drivers Nvidia Studio version and the color shift still happens. 

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 20, 2023 Apr 20, 2023

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Sorry for the typo.  I have updated the drivers and it still happens.

 

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Engaged ,
Apr 21, 2023 Apr 21, 2023

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@Charles Ruscher Have you tried to delete the GPU config file?

 

If not, then close LrC and delete this file:

\Users\[user name]\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\CameraRaw\GPU\Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Classic\Camera Raw GPU Config.txt

 

Then start LrC and try Denoise again.

 

I woud also recommend Denoising the RAW file without any adjustments, then apply adjustments to the DNG.

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Community Expert ,
Apr 19, 2023 Apr 19, 2023

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What are your develop settings on this image? The noise in the background seems extremely heavy for ISO 400 and there is considerable pattern noise in the image which would indicate the background was very heavily pushed by positive shadows and blacks and perhaps local masked edits. Not saying that this is bad to do or anything but might help chase down the issue. 

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 20, 2023 Apr 20, 2023

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Jao I think you are on to someting here.  The image was exposed to keep the light in the lantern from blowing out which resulted in having to raise the expostue up considerably 4.12 stops and 100 shadows.  This might be a pattern with others experiencing the black & white or color shifts where in underexposed pushed images challanges the AI.  I am shooting with Nikon D800 which is ISO invarable and a light painter which often causes me to push the shadows and/or exposure.  I love the idea of the AI Denoise for exactly the reason of quick showdow noise reduction.   I typically set the ISO low beacause of the ISO invarable but I might change the way I shoot and set higher ISOs.  Thanks for the insight!

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LEGEND ,
Apr 20, 2023 Apr 20, 2023

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"DirectX: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 (31.0.15.2824)"

 

To build on @drtonyb, most problems with LR's AI features are caused by older graphics drivers.  Before making conclusions about the cause of this issue, update to the latest Studio driver:

https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/204243/en-us/

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 20, 2023 Apr 20, 2023

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I have updated the drives and the color shift still happened.

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Community Expert ,
Apr 21, 2023 Apr 21, 2023

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What I'd try here is "park" the adjustments on a different file (just synchronize), then reset to default and run denoise without any adjustments. Then synchronize the settings back.

 

(not sure if a virtual copy will achieve the same thing).

 

My 3060 works splendidly on the files I've tried so far.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 21, 2023 Apr 21, 2023

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UPDATE....  First off I will say Lightroom Denoising is the best currently available for many reasons and what was shown in this post in my opinion is directly related to the extreme under exposure of the photo to "protect the highlights" in the lantern.   In "normal" exposures the Denoise is working wonderful.  I followed all the suggestions in this and other posts regarding drivers and the Camera Raw GPU Config.txt these things had no effect that I could determine therefore I doubt this is related to hardware, drivers or config files.  Althought maybe related to the camera Nikon D800 which is quited dated althought still preforms well. 

After experimentation with photos taken as the same time with different exposures of only a single stop brighter from the one previously shown the difference is monumental with just little color shift which is easily correctable and that brighter photo is still quite underexposed.   Therefore, there seems to be a threshold (beyond 2.5 stops & 100 shadows) from an under exposed image from a Nikon D800 where an added color cast happens, and the more under exposed the photo the more color cast.

Thanks to Jao vdL for leading the way to understanding.

And thanks Adobe for this feature quite impressive!

CharlesRuscher_0-1682104599777.png

 

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Community Expert ,
Apr 22, 2023 Apr 22, 2023

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If you get close to the zero point, there are all kinds of issues that can cause color shifts like this. Many (especially older) cameras have a noise bias in one of the color channels due to their amplifiers not being perfect and that can shift the color in the deep shadows, or the camera does some preconditioning of the raw data in the very deep shadows such as applying a threshold. It is also possible that the profiles Lightroom uses have a bias in the shadows. Here is an example from my old D600 that has a bit of reddish bias in the shadow noise that I have always been annoyed about. The Lightroom denoise cleans it up beautifully! Also, notice the amazing recovery of all the hair detail. Just astoundingly good.

Screenshot 2023-04-22 at 7.45.39 AM.jpg 

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LEGEND ,
Apr 22, 2023 Apr 22, 2023

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"there seems to be a threshold (beyond 2.5 stops & 100 shadows) from an under exposed image from a Nikon D800 where an added color cast happens"

 

In the blog post Denoise Demystified, Adobe developer Eric Chan wrote, 

 

"Order matters. I recommend applying Denoise early in the workflow ... Denoise can sometimes subtly change the overall tonality of the photo, especially by cleaning up the shadows. If your source photo already had major tonal adjustments, such as with Shadows, Clarity, or Dehaze, you may need to revisit those settings after applying Denoise." [Emphasis added]

 

So with this photo, what happens if you apply Denoise first and then adjust Exposure and Shadows?

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New Here ,
Dec 12, 2023 Dec 12, 2023

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I have the same issue. Most of the time (but not always), Enhance AI Denoise shifts colors. Sometimes slightly, sometimes pretty badly. I’m using it on Windows 11 with the latest Lightroom/Windows/Nvidia RTX 3060Ti drivers. Any ideas on what I can do about it? Thanks in advance

Screenshot 2023-12-13 000034.png

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LEGEND ,
Dec 12, 2023 Dec 12, 2023

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1. Had you applied any Develop settings before Denoise?

 

2. Please do the LR menu command Help > System Info and copy/paste the entire contents here so we can see exactly which versions of hardware and software LR thinks you're running and important LR options that are set.

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New Here ,
Dec 12, 2023 Dec 12, 2023

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Hi! 
Yes, there are some minor settings adjustments. And Denoise was the last step 
Here is the LR Info: 

Lightroom Classic version: 13.0.2 [ 202311290958-8ff975ea ]
License: Creative Cloud
Language setting: en
Operating system: Windows 11 - Business Edition
Version: 11.0.22621
Application architecture: x64
System architecture: x64
Logical processor count: 20
Processor speed: 3.6GHz
SqLite Version: 3.36.0
CPU Utilisation: 4.0%
Built-in memory: 32666.2 MB
Dedicated GPU memory used by Lightroom: 6673.6MB / 8038.0MB (83%)
Real memory available to Lightroom: 32666.2 MB
Real memory used by Lightroom: 5948.3 MB (18.2%)
Virtual memory used by Lightroom: 13118.4 MB
GDI objects count: 973
USER objects count: 3662
Process handles count: 4810
Memory cache size: 354.3MB
Internal Camera Raw version: 16.0 [ 1677 ]
Maximum thread count used by Camera Raw: 5
Camera Raw SIMD optimization: SSE2,AVX,AVX2
Camera Raw virtual memory: 1478MB / 16333MB (9%)
Camera Raw real memory: 1773MB / 32666MB (5%)
System DPI setting: 144 DPI (high DPI mode)
Desktop composition enabled: Yes
Standard Preview Size: 3840 pixels
Displays: 1) 2560x1440, 2) 3840x2160
Input types: Multitouch: No, Integrated touch: No, Integrated pen: Yes, External touch: No, External pen: Yes, Keyboard: No
 
Graphics Processor Info: 
DirectX: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti (31.0.15.4633)
Init State: GPU for Export supported by default
User Preference: GPU for Export enabled
 
Application folder: C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic
Library Path: C:\Users\nikit\Pictures\Lightroom\Lightroom Catalog-v13.lrcat
Settings Folder: C:\Users\nikit\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Lightroom
 
Installed Plugins: 
1) AdobeStock
2) Flickr
3) Luminar Neo
4) Nikon Tether Plugin
 
Config.lua flags: None
 
Adapter #1: Vendor : 10de
Device : 2489
Subsystem : 663019da
Revision : a1
Video Memory : 8038
Adapter #2: Vendor : 1414
Device : 8c
Subsystem : 0
Revision : 0
Video Memory : 0
AudioDeviceIOBlockSize: 1024
AudioDeviceName: $$$/dvaaudiodevice/SystemDefaultAndEffectiveDeviceName=System Default - Speakers (Realtek(R) Audio)#{comment}DVAAU-4201250: Open the audio hardware preferences page.
AudioDeviceNumberOfChannels: 2
AudioDeviceSampleRate: 48000
Build: LR5x83
Direct2DEnabled: false
GL_ACCUM_ALPHA_BITS: 16
GL_ACCUM_BLUE_BITS: 16
GL_ACCUM_GREEN_BITS: 16
GL_ACCUM_RED_BITS: 16
GL_ALPHA_BITS: 0
GL_BLUE_BITS: 8
GL_DEPTH_BITS: 24
GL_GREEN_BITS: 8
GL_MAX_3D_TEXTURE_SIZE: 16384
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE: 32768
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_UNITS: 4
GL_MAX_VIEWPORT_DIMS: 32768,32768
GL_RED_BITS: 8
GL_RENDERER: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti/PCIe/SSE2
GL_SHADING_LANGUAGE_VERSION: 4.60 NVIDIA
GL_STENCIL_BITS: 8
GL_VENDOR: NVIDIA Corporation
GL_VERSION: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 546.33
GPUDeviceEnabled: false
OGLEnabled: true
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LEGEND ,
Dec 12, 2023 Dec 12, 2023

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"Yes, there are some minor settings adjustments. And Denoise was the last step"

 

Do you see the color change if  you apply Denoise first rather than last?

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New Here ,
Dec 18, 2023 Dec 18, 2023

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Haven't tried it. I will. So basically I have to apply Denoise first? Before any adjustments are done?

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LEGEND ,
Dec 18, 2023 Dec 18, 2023

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"I have to apply Denoise first? Before any adjustments are done?"

 

That's what Adobe recommends:

https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2023/04/18/denoise-demystified

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New Here ,
Feb 08, 2024 Feb 08, 2024

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The green color cast comes from the Raw Details step. If you open the Enhance dialog and only enable Raw Details, you get intense colored speckles all over the darkest areas of the picture. The speckles then go on to damage the output of the Denoise (by shifting colors) and Super Resolution (by adding even more colored speckles).

 

For uncompressed RAW out of my Sony a7C, the speckles are primarily green, but also some cyan/blue, and occasionally red.

 

Interestingly, in the preview, the speckles change in presence/quantity/intensity depending on where in the frame you are looking.

 

I haven't tried to science out what exactly makes the problem occur, but for me it mainly happens with images that contain large areas that are underexposed by 4+ stops.

 

The order of operations doesn't appear to make a difference in the end result. Adobe probably only recommends denoising first because of the impact it can have on the judgments you make during editing.

 

I have an NVIDIA RTX 4090 GPU with the latest drivers. I've never noticed a difference between driver versions.

 

Example of the speckles in the Enhance preview:

Taudris_0-1707385857258.png

 

I've attached an ARW file from my Sony a7C that exhibits this problem.

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