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Inspiring
December 19, 2023
Answered

No difference in softproof image but major differences in historgram

  • December 19, 2023
  • 4 replies
  • 1609 views

I don't see any difference in my image when I view the softproof version using a vendor specific ICC file vs the original display.  However there is a big difference in the historgram.  Shouldn't I see a difference in the image when I look at the softproof version?

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Correct answer glenn2001

Thanks but I am now at a loss of what to do.  The print company sent me a hardcopy proof of my image, which I want to get printed on metal.  The proof is too dark and the colors are off a bit, maybe too warm.  The company told me to calibrate my monitor (which I have done) and to adjust my monitor to match the proof.  After trying multiple times with changes to the color temperature, contrast, and RGB controls on my monitor, I am not able to get my screen to look like the hardcopy proof.  So that's when I decided to try Lightroom soft proof with the intent of modifying the soft proof image (which I had hoped would look like the hardcopy) to have the brightness and color of my original edits.  Since that's not working either, I'm at a loss on what to do.  Do you have any suggestions?  Thanks very much!

4 replies

Participant
August 16, 2024

You should see a difference. But you don't. Because Lightroom color management is utter broken and useless for the purpose of seeing what prints will look like.

 

The correct answer is: import your image into Photoshop and use its color management and proofing tools, which actually mostly work. You can load an ICC profile for, say, a metal print, and the image you see onscreen will (often drastically) change in appearance, as it should. Lightroom just doesn't do this and offers no cogent explanation for how to achieve this result. Photoshop works properly; Lightroom doesn't work at all.

 

Note: even Photoshop suffers when it comes to brightness. Monitors are often set much too bright, and although prints previewed using a specific ICC profile in Photoshop will have their colors displayed properly for that profile, their brightness may be way off. The only reasonable fix for this is: Select your ICC profile, make adjustments in Photoshop if needed to color-correct for that profile, then spend the money to have a small print made. It'll likely come back too dark. Using that print as a reference, adjust your monitor brightness until there is a reasonable match to the print. Note, too, that brightness matching like this is itself somewhat fraught; the actual lighting in the environment where the print will be displayed needs to be taken into account, too. But this approach will get you quite close in most cases, and overcome the disappointment when you receive a print that seems shockingly dark compared to what you saw onscreen.

Community Expert
December 20, 2023

This is how soft proofing works. Ideally you should NOT see any difference. This means that all the colors are inside the gamut of both your monitor and the icc profile. So that you don't see a change is completely expected. Oftentimes the biggest changes are observed when you also enable "simulate paper and ink" but that option is just meant to give you an impression of the impact of the paper color and the ink black density. With it off in general the difference for soft proof should be minor except if you're soft proofing for a not too good printer. If you're soft proofing for a different standard color space like soft proof for adobeRGB it is extremely rare to be able to see any difference. Sometimes proofing for sRGB you might see a difference if you are on a wide gamut display.

The histogram that will be shown in the histogram display when proofing is based on the icc profile instead of based on the Lightroom color space for the histogram which is a special colorspace with prophotoRGB primaries and a sRGB tonecurve. These profiles usually have completely different tone curves than sRGB and absolutely have different primaries. So the histogram should change but the appearance of the image should not change. When you see large changes, it usually just means that the image has colors outside of the soft proof profile and you can choose to correct for that (but don't have to if the difference is minor or not objectionable).

Community Expert
December 20, 2023

Oh forgot to say that it is possible to see minor differences even when your colors are all inside the soft proof ICC profile's gamut when you are using perceptual rendering intent and the profile has defined one. You see this often in profiles for printer/paper combinations. However when you choose relative rendering intent for those you won't see any difference.

glenn2001AuthorCorrect answer
Inspiring
December 20, 2023

Thanks but I am now at a loss of what to do.  The print company sent me a hardcopy proof of my image, which I want to get printed on metal.  The proof is too dark and the colors are off a bit, maybe too warm.  The company told me to calibrate my monitor (which I have done) and to adjust my monitor to match the proof.  After trying multiple times with changes to the color temperature, contrast, and RGB controls on my monitor, I am not able to get my screen to look like the hardcopy proof.  So that's when I decided to try Lightroom soft proof with the intent of modifying the soft proof image (which I had hoped would look like the hardcopy) to have the brightness and color of my original edits.  Since that's not working either, I'm at a loss on what to do.  Do you have any suggestions?  Thanks very much!

AxelMatt
Community Expert
Community Expert
December 19, 2023

In a first step please try resetting the preferences of Lightroom Classic:   https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/help/setting-preferences-lightroom.html

 

It's recommended to backup your preferences before you reset the preferences to the default settings: 

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/kb/preference-file-and-other-file-locations.html

 

 

My System: Intel i7-8700K - 64GB RAM - NVidia Geforce RTX 3060 - Windows 11 Pro 25H2 -- LR-Classic 15 - Photoshop 27 - Nik Collection 8 - PureRAW 5 - Topaz Photo
glenn2001Author
Inspiring
December 20, 2023

Thank you for your response but unfortunately that didn't help.  When I turn on softproofing with the printer's ICC file, there's no difference in what I see on the screen.  I shot the image on a Sony A7III and I'm using a Dell 2718Q monitor.  Do you have any other suggestions?

JohanElzenga
Community Expert
Community Expert
December 19, 2023

Not necessarily. You are looking at the soft proof on a monitor, so there are two color conversions: First the conversion to show the soft proof, but then these colors will be converted to your monitor and that is where you can lose the visible differences.

 

As an example: Let's say the image is ProPhotoRGB, you soft proof against AdobeRGB but your monitor is sRGB. Because sRGB is the smallest color space of the three, you will not be able to see on your monitor what soft proofing from ProPhotoRGB to AdobeRGB does.

 

-- Johan W. Elzenga
JohanElzenga
Community Expert
Community Expert
December 19, 2023
quote

I view the softproof version using a vendor specific ICC file vs the original display.


BTW, if you mean that you are soft proofing against your own monitor profile, then you will never see a difference. A soft proof is a simulation of  how the image will look when displayed on the device your are soft proofing, so you are simulating how the image will look on your own monitor...

 

-- Johan W. Elzenga
glenn2001Author
Inspiring
December 20, 2023

Right, I am comparing the default monitor profile against the printer's profile.