P: Generative Remove Feedback (Lr Classic & Lr Eco)

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

This post applies to Lightroom Classic and the Lightroom Ecosystem products.

Camera Raw feedback can be found here.

Generative Remove makes it easier to remove unwanted objects and distractions with a simple gesture, even on complex backgrounds. For more accurate results, be sure to include the object's shadow in your selection and/or expand its size. 

Detect Objects uses AI to find the objects underneath a brushed area. The masked areas will now appear larger than the Early Access version of this feature. You can also circle objects for quicker selection now. 

We have also updated the spot selection experience to make it easier to manage variations, switch the fill type, refine the selection area, or re-generate as needed. 

Batch updating is also now supported for Generative Remove spots. 

Try out the latest updates and share your feedback with us here. Please also include the following details in your post: 

• App version
• System details
• Example image(s) if you wish to share

Our team continually monitors this thread to track issues for future improvement. Thanks!

Lisa Ngo: Lightroom Product Manager

Posted by:

[johnrellis]

@paulina_amox: "In Classic, instead of the removed object, its glow often remains, or a completely different randomly inserted element instead of the background. The stamp also does not always work properly, even when the opacity is set to 100%, the elements I want to cover show through"

It sounds like you're applying Remove on top of an AI mask, such as Sky or Background, which can leave a "ghost" image behind -- this has always been the case, even before Generative Remove was introduced. Do the menu command Settings > Update AI Settings to recompute the mask.

If this doesn't help, please attach a full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified original photo (not a screenshot), so we and Adobe can see the issue in detail. With nearly every of the several dozen problem photos posted here, we've been able to show how to quickly remove the desired objects.

[umlautnord]

I'm still having consistent issues with the tool doing a poor job at matching background noise/pattern (e.g. wall, sky). Standard remove does a great job with this. (I use it when possible.)

In the below example, a person's head was partially obscuring the bookshelves; I wanted the bookshelves and a blank wall. AI remove does a decent job with the removal, and I'm happy enough with the variations given. Except, it's just pretty obvious that something has been done to the wall. See screenshots below that have the area outline turned off and on. The border is clear even with the outline turned off.

If I go through an incredible number of variations, I might get something half-decent, but never great—and then I'm stuck with whatever else the variation is. Sky is a huge issue too.

Anyone have tips?

--

[johnrellis]

@umlautnord: "I'm still having consistent issues with the tool doing a poor job at matching background noise/pattern"

There are three separable issues:

1. Adobe Firefly returns replacement patches no larger than 2048 x 2048 pixels. So if the area to be replaced is larger, LR upscales the patch, making it blurrier.

2. Generative Remove often doesn't match the tone of a uniform background (e.g. sky) and the different tone of the replacement is quite noticeable, with a sharp boundary. You can often use the Heal tool on top of the Generative Remove replacement to do a better job blending.

3. Generative Remove often doesn't do well with detailed grain/noise, as in your photo. See here for how to use Effects > Grain to sometimes ameliorate the problem:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic... 

[umlautnord]

Appreciate the assistance, @johnrellis. Firefly patch restriction not an issue here, but good to know! (OT: Does this include Photoshop too?)

Re #2 - Noted!

Re #3 - I'm not 100% sure what the specific steps are there recommended there... can you confirm this? Here's what worked for me:

1) Globally, adjust the grain sliders so that there's a match between removed/non removed areas. Leave that applied.

2) Create a full-image mask with the negative amount of grain to counteracts that. Image returns to looking exactly the same. (There are perhaps miniscule differences in the noise, but nothing of concern to me, at least—it's still basically the same original image grain).

3) Remove (using Brush or Object or whatever) the Gen AI Remove area from the full-image mask.

For whatever reason, simply determining globally, removing globally, then adding that grain in a single mask over the remove area doesn't do the trick. I've never entirely been sure how sliders like grain and noise reduction work +/- in masks depending on the global state, but this is one that seems to work out!

[johnrellis]

@umlautnord: "Firefly patch restriction not an issue here, but good to know! (OT: Does this include Photoshop too?)"

I believe so, but am not positive.

Re the grain workaround, I'm not expert in that. The person who posted it, @C.Cella, would be a better resource.

[C.Cella]

@umlautnord the workflow is simple.

Mask the entire photo with a 0/0 100/100 Luminance Range and apply Grain via the Mask so set the Amount locally.

Grain Size and Roughness settinfs are shared with the global settings.

OR 

Paint with a brush over the Generative Remove apllying Grain locally.

[Tihomir28323350fsdb]

Lightroom Generative AI don't remove object, just replace with other object.
I want to remove a car, not replace it with another car. There should be different options for removing and for generating.

[johnrellis]

@Tihomir28323350fsdb: "Lightroom Generative AI don't remove object, just replace with other object."

See this article for how to remove objects more reliably:
https://www.lightroomqueen.com/generative-remove-replace/

Most complaints about Remove are addressed in the article. But if it doesn't help, please attach a full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified original photo (not a screenshot), so we and Adobe can see the issue in detail. With nearly every of the several dozen problem photos posted here, we've been able to show how to quickly remove the desired objects.

[rlpoetschke]

The remove tool is not as good as the one inside photoshop.

[johnrellis]

@rlpoetschke: "The remove tool is not as good as the one inside photoshop."

Photoshop's Generative Remove and LR's Generative Remove both use Adobe Firefly. But the non-destructive editing model of LR means there are some things you need to learn about LR's Generative Remove to get the best results.  

First, uncheck Detect Objects (on by default in LR 14) -- it doesn't work well, especially with skinny objects and along the edges of photos.

Second, see this quick-read article for how to remove objects more reliably:
https://www.lightroomqueen.com/generative-remove-replace/

Most complaints about Remove are addressed in the article. But if it doesn't help, please attach a full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified original photo (not a screenshot), so we and Adobe can see the issue in detail. With nearly every of the several dozen problem photos posted here, we've been able to show how to quickly remove the desired objects.

[C.Cella]

As @johnrellis said the models used by Photoshop and ACR are the same; in CR they run on RAW data.

But Generative Fill is vastly superior in Ps.

. In Ps we can type instructions.

. In Ps we can feather the fill/selection.

. In Ps we can movw the fill without triggering a refresh, which allows users to place it better...I fixed this in LrC using the SDK but due to lack of feathering it doens't work well.

. In Ps we can generate many variations without loosing the ones we have already.

. In Ps we can copy and paste the Genrative Remove to other images as it is (John has implemeted this in his Plug-in "Copy Settings" but Adobe doesn't allow it)

. In Ps we can erase part of the variation without losing it : refine subtracting in LrC is simply horrible.

. In Ps variations are presented as thumbnails which is better for usability.

.

Gnrative fill is handicapped and vastly less usable in LrC than in Photoshop.

It's not a good port IMO. 

.

[danzig]

TLDR. - Photoshop generative AI works way better than the LrC

[defaultf0o27x12y4f8]

For Heaven's sake, Adobe.  JUST MAKE THE FUNCTIONS THAT ARE IN PHOTOSHOP AND LIGHTROOM (CLASSIC) WORK THE SAME!!!!!    The "Remove" function within LrC SUCKS whereas the one in PS does work.  I shouldn't have to jump from LrC to PS just to do a single function.  Get your act together!

[johnrellis]

@defaultf0o27x12y4f8: "The "Remove" function within LrC SUCKS whereas the one in PS does work."

Generative Remove does work the same in both, but because of LR's non-destructive editing model, there are some things you have to spend a few minutes learning about in order to get the best results:

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/generative-remove-replace/

Most complaints about Remove are addressed in the article. But if it doesn't help, please attach a full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified original photo (not a screenshot), so we and Adobe can see the issue in detail. With nearly every of the several dozen problem photos posted here, we've been able to show how to quickly remove the desired objects.

[sb2314]

If you do it right, Lightroom's Remove feature has caught up to
Photoshop's. Remember to use it before any other editing. You'll be
pleasantly surprised. If you don't succeed at first, try it again. It's
not perfect. If only they had the corrected part with the same resolution,
it would be incredibly good. I'm sure they are working towards that.


--
Sent from Gmail in PC

[jeff_5655]

My situation was to remove a large clip (from a clip on light) on the edge of the inside of a piano - tried your removal tool for the first time and it seemed to get the idea (unlike some AIs) but it took the 2nd variation to nail it. Saved me a HUGE amount of time. Very helpful.

[Lucas Saporiti]

The generative remove in LR doens't work most of the time. For exemple: when i try to remove people on background, in the most of time LR create a bizzare person instead of remove. The same happen when i try remove cables or elements on the walls. Instead of remove, LR create something bizzare. 

[johnrellis]

@Lucas Saporiti: "when i try to remove people on background, in the most of time LR create a bizarre person instead of remove. The same happen when i try remove cables or elements on the walls."

1. Uncheck Detect Objects (on by default in LR 14) -- it doesn't work well, especially with skinny objects and along the edges of photos.

2. See this article for how to remove objects more reliably:
https://www.lightroomqueen.com/generative-remove-replace/

Most complaints about Remove are addressed in the article. But if it doesn't help, please attach a full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified original photo (not a screenshot), so we and Adobe can see the issue in detail. With nearly every of the several dozen problem photos posted here, we've been able to show how to quickly remove the desired objects.

[jeanleon83]

only part of the selected object was removed (  all 3 options)

[johnrellis]

@jeanleon83: "only part of the selected object was removed"

1. Uncheck Detect Objects (on by default in LR 14) -- it doesn't work well, especially with skinny objects and along the edges of photos.

2. See this article for how to remove objects more reliably:
https://www.lightroomqueen.com/generative-remove-replace/

Most complaints about Remove are addressed in the article. But if it doesn't help, please attach a full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified original photo (not a screenshot), so we and Adobe can see the issue in detail. With nearly every of the several dozen problem photos posted here, we've been able to show how to quickly remove the desired objects.

[johnw53783389]

Often when I use the generative AI remove feature it replaces instead of removing. For example, I tried to remove a person but it replaced it with another person. Is there a way to prevent this from happening?

[johnrellis]

@johnw53783389: "when I use the generative AI remove feature it replaces instead of removing."

See this article for how to remove objects more reliably:
https://www.lightroomqueen.com/generative-remove-replace/

Most complaints about Remove are addressed in the article. But if it doesn't help, please attach a full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified original photo (not a screenshot), so we and Adobe can see the issue in detail. With nearly every of the several dozen problem photos posted here, we've been able to show how to quickly remove the desired objects.

[Andrew22540702ffi5]

Leaving the same complaint as many other people here.

The feature simply doesn't work. Yes I have read the tips of expanding the search area, but it provides similar issues where the AI cant detect the inconsistencies.

Frustrating to be paying more money year after year for more features that do not work properly.

[sherwood77]

Ditto that.
This feature needs some Maintenance ASAP as it works in competitive
products from different vendors.

David Kenny
203-644-9044
sherwood77b@gmail.com
\\

"The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches
behind it." - Ansel Adams

[johnrellis]

@Andrew22540702ffi5, @sherwood77, @Gary_Robles8438,

To use Generative Remove most effectively, you should spend a few minutes reading this article, which describes a few more tips other than just making selections bigger:

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/generative-remove-replace/

Most complaints about Remove are addressed in the article. But if it doesn't help, please attach a full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified original photo (not a screenshot). With nearly every one of the several dozen problem photos posted here, we've been able to show how to quickly remove the desired objects.