P: Generative Remove Feedback (Lr Classic & Lr Eco)

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

This post applies to Lightroom Classic and the Lightroom Ecosystem products.

Camera Raw feedback can be found here.

Generative Remove makes it easier to remove unwanted objects and distractions with a simple gesture, even on complex backgrounds. For more accurate results, be sure to include the object's shadow in your selection and/or expand its size. 

Detect Objects uses AI to find the objects underneath a brushed area. The masked areas will now appear larger than the Early Access version of this feature. You can also circle objects for quicker selection now. 

We have also updated the spot selection experience to make it easier to manage variations, switch the fill type, refine the selection area, or re-generate as needed. 

Batch updating is also now supported for Generative Remove spots. 

Try out the latest updates and share your feedback with us here. Please also include the following details in your post: 

• App version
• System details
• Example image(s) if you wish to share

Our team continually monitors this thread to track issues for future improvement. Thanks!

Lisa Ngo: Lightroom Product Manager

Posted by:

[John R Ellis]

krakozavr@gmail.com: "sometimes, it continuously suggests different versions of objects I'm trying to remove, even with multiple attempts of regeneration."

See this article for how to remove objects more reliably:
https://www.lightroomqueen.com/generative-remove-replace/

Most complaints about Remove are addressed in the article. But if it doesn't help, please attach a full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified original photo, so we and Adobe can see the issue in detail. With nearly everyone who has posted a problem photo, we've been able to show how to quickly remove the desired objects.

[krakozavr@gmail.com]

Thank you for the link, I found it already and read it. I figured these tricks on my own already, but sometimes (I can admit, on rare occasions) it doesn't help and modifications of the existing selection don't help, too. In these cases, if I delete the original selection completely and start over, it works properly even if I recreate the original selection in details.

[John R Ellis]

krakozavr@gmail.com, when you run into this again,  attach a full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified original photo. 

[jimbo7127]

Please bring back the old Lighroom Classic. This new update with the generative AI is terrible. As others have said, the remove tool's Detect objects feature auto-extends the selection way too much. It then takes painstaking work to try to reduce the selection. The generative AI feature is not even as good as it had been in the previous version before this update as it either replaces the object with unwanted background or introduces new fringing that was not previously an issue.

Overall, this update has substantially slowed my workflow, and I am now spending 5x the time I used to editing my photos... and the results aren't even as good!

[SADDLE-UP]

Sometimes amazing, sometimes crap.
I wax and wane between love it and hate it.
AI is human, it can be seriously dumb 😞

[MichaelN0815]

LRc 14.0.1 ; WIndows 11 23H2

scrolling through pictures with AI masks increases GPU VRAM use very fast. Reaching 100% slows down LR. Only restart of LR helps for short time.

[John R Ellis]

@MichaelN0815: "scrolling through pictures with AI masks increases GPU VRAM use very fast."

Most problems with LR's AI commands are caused by older, buggy graphics drivers. Try updating your graphics driver by going directly to the manufacturer's web site:
https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/kb/troubleshoot-gpu.html#solution-4

If that doesn't help, please copy/paste here the entire contents of the LR menu command Help > System Info -- that will let us see exactly which versions of hardware and software LR thinks you're running.

[jacobsquires]

This latest version in demonstrably worse than before. I'm trying to "REMOVE" a person and Generative AI keeps filling it in with another person. You REALLY NEED a button to say fill with surrounding background and a checkbox no People, or Pets.

[C.Cella]

Lots of users are saying the older version was better.

I have checked and unelss I am mistakenly Gen Remove in LrC 13 and LrC 14 is using the same ModelVersion(s)

.

[John R Ellis]

@C.Cella: "unelss I am mistakenly Gen Remove in LrC 13 and LrC 14 is using the same ModelVersion(s)"

Running Any Filter on my LR 13 and LR 14 catalogs shows that the Generative AI Model Version did change between LR 13 and 14:

- Almost all photos in my LR 13 catalog use version 1.0.5-beta.1-1.2_1.2-8c2cea4-0.1.27.1r16.2.

- Older photos in my LR 14 catalog use version 1.0.5-beta.1-1.2_1.2-8c2cea4-0.1.27.1r16.2, while photos edited recently use 1.0.5-beta.1-1.2_1.2-8c2cea4-a6. 

Interestingly, there are a few photos in the LR 13 catalog using the newer model on 10/2/2024 and the older model on 10/10/2024.  Since the model version actually used may be determined by the Firely servers and not the LR app, perhapst Firefly jumped the gun and used the newer model for a bit around 10/2 and then backed up to the older model until the LR 14 release on 10/14.

* * *

In addition to the model changing, Detect Objects changed as well, using a larger border around the detected objects.

However, without seeing actual examples, it is premature to conclude that the change in model or Detect Objects is the cause of the complaints. So far, only one person has uploaded a full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified original showing bad behavior, and that turned out to be an errant Opacity slider.

So until more people experiencing issues upload full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified originals, I don't think Adobe will likely pay much attention.

[C.Cella]

@John R Ellis Gen
I did my test and remove has two "pm_clio_model_version" and alternates between the two.

Core Model is : 1.0.5-beta.1-1.2_1.2-8c2cea4

Then Remove can have either use:

-a6 
-0.1.27.1r16.2,

In LrC 13.5 I have created 2 Gen Remove (normal and Objects) and they have each one of the "sub-models".

But maybe Remove is retroactive, since is powered by Firefly.

Remove Detect Objects is using the same ModelVersion as Objects in Masking (I.e. ModelVersion = 234881976 ) BUT the team has changed the "Auto expand" that is applied on the resulting mask.

E.g

In LrC 13.5 the Remove Detect Objects was expanding, let's say X pixels.
In LrC it expands 2X pixels.

Those familiar with Photoshop know that any Ai selection can be "Expanded" in Ps...and more

Camera Raw is kinda doing the same BUT we have no control on the "Expand" for Remove Detect Objects.

.

[C.Cella]

@John R Ellis It might be that Remove is using one model AND Objects Remove uses the other one.

Objects Remove in Content Aware has also different Expand.

All of this just to say that I am not sure that Gen Remove in LrC 14 got a drastically different model compared to what we had in LrC 13.

Ai gets us very different results based on the same Input

If one refreshes the same Gen Remove 10 times it might get some repetitions but usually no two variations are alike.

.

[John R Ellis]

@C.Cella: "It might be that Remove is using one model AND Objects Remove uses the other one."

I just tried two Removes with Use Generative AI, one with Detect Objects and one without, and they both used model 1.0.5-beta.1-1.2_1.2-8c2cea4-a6.

[C.Cella]

@John R Ellis 

Ah ok then it's hard to tell what's the "logic" behind using one model or the other.

Imo it would be ideal to let users decide which model to use.

So let's say we get Firefly 3, Firefly 4 and so in then users might want to use older versions.

[John R Ellis]

@jacobsquires: "I'm trying to "REMOVE" a person and Generative AI keeps filling it in with another person."

See this article for how to remove objects more reliably:
https://www.lightroomqueen.com/generative-remove-replace/

Most complaints about Remove are addressed in the article. But if it doesn't help, please attach a full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified original photo, so we and Adobe can see the issue in detail. With nearly everyone who has posted a problem photo, we've been able to show how to quickly remove the desired objects.

[fd31069616]

It seems like the AI Remove isn't as good at the Beta version. When removing people along the edge of a photo, the AI creates a horiffic non-human replacement instead of simply showing stairs, or a fence, or a whatever is in the background. It seems like most people will use this tool to remove other people, so it seems counterintuitive for the AI to try (and I mean try) to add it's own version of what it thinks people look like. There should be a toggle where we let the AI add people or make sure it doesn't replace the remove with AI generated people.

[John R Ellis]

@fd31069616: "When removing people along the edge of a photo..."

Remove looks at pixels that have been cropped out by Crop, Transform, and Lens Corrections. So undo those commands, do Remove, then reapply them.  If that doesn't help, you may be editing a raw from a camera that automatically crops out a border along the edges of the photo, and Remove looks at those cropped-out pixels too; see here for how to workaround that bug:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/camera-raw-discussions/generative-remove-doesn-t-ignore-the-hidden-bo... 

If this still doesn't help, please attach a full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified original photo, so we and Adobe can see the issue in detail. With nearly everyone who has posted a problem photo, we've been able to show how to quickly remove the desired objects.

[bonnieleek]

It started GREAT .. then instead of removing the objects it just kept them in place and trhe "variations" had shaddows of them.  Now I can't get it to work anymore.  Grrr

[John R Ellis]

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@bonnieleek: "instead of removing the objects it just kept them in place and trhe "variations" had shaddows of them. "

Make sure the Opacity slider is set to 100:

You'll have to make at least one brush stroke to see the slider. 

If that doesn't help, see this article for how to remove objects more reliably:
https://www.lightroomqueen.com/generative-remove-replace/

Most complaints about Remove are addressed in the article. But if it doesn't help, please attach a full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified original photo, so we and Adobe can see the issue in detail. With nearly everyone who has posted a problem photo, we've been able to show how to quickly remove the desired objects.

[NetHawk]

In general, the tool is impressive. What I struggle with is that if I want to remove a hydrant, for example, it gets replaced by another type of hydrant instead of being removed altogether. I tried all sorts of tricks, but in the end I had to resort to Photoshop.

[John R Ellis]

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@NetHawk: "if I want to remove a hydrant, for example, it gets replaced by another type of hydrant instead of being removed altogether. "

With your attached JPEG, Remove quickly removed the hydrant:

The photo's metadata indicates you had cropped the original raw along the bottom. Remove looks at all the photo's pixels, including those cropped out by Crop, Lens Corrections, and Transform. So undo the crop, apply Remove, then redo the crop.   

See this article for more details on this and other tips for removing objects more reliably:

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/generative-remove-replace/

[Emosie24472695pp4c]

1. En la mayoria de los casos simplente queremos que borre el fondo no que cree nada nuevo, la versión anterior creo que lo hacia mejor.

2 La selección del objeto toma una zona  mas amplia que antes y modifica al sujeto cuando no quiero que lo haga.

Gracias por vuestras mejoras

[John R Ellis]

@Emosie24472695pp4c: ". In most cases we simply want it to erase the background, not create anything new, I think the previous version did it better."

Please attach a full-resolution JPEG exported from an unmodified original photo in which LR 14 isn't doing as well as you'd like. There have been a number of complaints that LR 13 did it better, but so far no one has provided any examples.

[Coopie10]

I was excited to try the update using the removal tool with Generative AI in LRC . I had a telephone pole against a blue sky that needed to be removed. Unfortunately, LRC did not get the job done. Sometimes it deleted a piece of the pole, sometimes it gave me a crooked wobbly pole, but never did it entirely remove the pole. I am most disappointed. 

[John R Ellis]

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Remove easily removed the pole and its shadow from your screenshot:

Your screenshot shows that you've cropped and applied masking. In general, you should Remove first, then crop and use AI masking. See this article for more details:
https://www.lightroomqueen.com/generative-remove-replace/

Most complaints about Remove are addressed in the article. But if it doesn't help, please attach a full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified original photo, so we and Adobe can see the issue in detail. With nearly everyone who has posted a problem photo, we've been able to show how to quickly remove the desired objects.