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Pieter_Imagine
Participant
November 15, 2021
Answered

P: Smart preview workflow & AI masks when reconnecting to originals-(Affects Catalog Sharing also)

  • November 15, 2021
  • 11 replies
  • 7249 views

I'm a photo editor for other photographers. When I edit images for a client, I work with a catalogue with smart previews. When I'm ready I send this catalogue to the client and he/she imports this catalogue into the original catalogue with the original images. But then they get an error with the masks 'select subject' and 'select sky'. No problem with the other masks I've used (like brush).

 

Is it possible that the masks that I made with the smart previews don't match with the original images of the client?

 

 

This topic has been closed for replies.
Correct answer Rikk Flohr_Photography

Effective with Lightroom Classic 11 (because of the new masking) it is necessary to send the .lrcat and the .lrcat-data (if it exists) along with the Smart Previews.  yourcatalogname.lrcat-data contains any AI-generated masks (in pixel form) that belong to the images in that catalog. Can you send the .lrcat-data to the client and have them place it alongside their .lrcat file (with Lightroom Classic closed) and relaunch Lightroom and see if the masks will reconnect?

Now, having said that, it should not be necessary to recompute the AI mask but there may be a quality advantage to recomputing it when you are attached to the original over the smart preview. 

 

Note: This also applies to other shared catalog scenarios such as sharing a catalog within other users or desktop to laptop. 

 

11 replies

H
heatherwl
Participating Frequently
April 26, 2022

I am hoping someone here can help me with this. I have spoken to several people at adobe and the fix they keep giving me does not work.

 

I edit photos for a living. My clients send me their lightroom catalog and smart previews. I edit the smart previews and then 'export as a catalog'. I send them an lrcat file and an lrcat-data file. My clients then import the catalog I send them. Prior to getting the new ai masks, all of my edits always showed up after they import the catalog. Presently all of my edits EXCEPT the sky masks and subject masks show up when a client imports my work.

 

I have read that the sky masks and subject masks are bit map based and all other tools are vector based. I was also told that the sky masks and subject masks are in that lrcat-data file. I am always sure to send that file with the catalog. 

 

The history panel shows that I made the edits to the skies and the subjects, but after export every one of those masks has the exclamation point and says that they have to be updated/reloaded. When a client reloads every mask my edits finally show up. But my clients shouldn't have to reload 1000s of masks (I edit weddings, so lots of photos!) after they paid me to do the edits!!!! They pay me because they don't have time to sit at the computer. 

 

Twice adobe support said this is a known issue and I just need to go back to using version11.0 and that fixes the issue. But it hasn't fixed the issue!! My sky and subject masks are still not staying loaded when I export the catalog and data files.

 

Does anyone know how I can send my work and have it all show up with the masks all loaded? Do my clients need to import my work differently than they did before before lightroom had the newer ai features? If so, what exactly do they need to do? 

 

I use a macbook pro with Monterey 12.0.1.  I have tried lightroom versions 11.0, 11.2 11.3. 

 

Most of my clients also use a mac. I do not know their operating systems, but they are most likely Monterey also.

 

Thank you in advance if anyone can help. I am at my wits end trying to figure this out. My clients haven't been able to figure it out either, other than them sitting at the computer for hours reloading all the masks! Adobe was supposed to have someone more knowledgeable call me back today, but that didn't happen.

 

A large part of my work is enhancing sunset skies, I really need to be able to use the sky and subject masks.

 

Heather

    T
    tmickow
    Inspiring
    April 26, 2022

    I do some occasional shared editing & catalog export/import with a couple other people, so this sounds like it may be a problem for me too.  We haven't had the need since the 11.x release though, so I haven't run across the problem you're describing yet, but I'll definitely test it out to avoid any surprises.

     

    I'm guessing the solution today is 1) avoid using the new ai masking features or 2) recompute all the masks manually.

     

    The planned auto-recompute feature may be the long term fix - 

    Add auto update recompute to subject /sky masking after copy/paste 

    H
    heatherwl
    Participating Frequently
    April 27, 2022

    Yes, definitely be on the lookout for this issue. I had no idea this was going on until a client was wondering why I wasn't completing the sky edits she asked for. Since adobe has known it was an issue for a while now it sure would have been nice to let us all know. It does not look good for my business that I was sending out blank skies. 

     

    Another photo editir had posted a question about this several months ago, but there was no workable solution there. Usually when there is a new bug I can do a google search and find a work around for that issue until adobe fixes it. But this one has me stumped!

    M
    mjwhite99
    Participant
    November 23, 2021

    With LR Classic, I have been sharing .lrcat files across two separate computers without issues until this latest upgrade. To share .lrcat files I do the following: On my local drives in the two computers,  I store my entire LR files for each catalog. All LR folders mirror one another between the computers. After processing new pics in a catalog on Computer A, I move the .lrcat file to MS OneDrive so that I can then download the .lrcat file and move it into the folder structure on the local drive of Computer B. It's been a GREAT way for me to move from my Desktop computer to my Laptop without a glitch in my workflow. It's NEVER been a problem until today. Last night I used the new "subject" masking features on my laptop for the first time. I loved the new feature. I closed the program per usual and I moved the .lrcat file to OneDrive. This morning I downloaded the .lrcat into my Desktop and opened it as I normally do. All edits of my catalog and raw files remained EXCEPT the new "subject masking". All edits related to "subject masking" were gone. All crops and other edits remained; the "subject masking" did not make it to the new computer. Also, LR gave me the notice that "subject needs to be reprocessed." When I reprocessed the "subject," the feature worked, but the edits that I had performed last night did not reappear. I am now starting from scratch on those edits. What has changed? Why haven't the masking edits moved across my catalogs?

    M
    mjwhite99
    Participant
    November 23, 2021

    I am replying to my own post becuase I seem to have discovered the issue: v11 has a new folder file, ...v11.lrcat-data, that previous versions did not have. Based on this discovery and a similiar masking issue posted here that I just came across, it seems that to successfully move the "masking" data to a new commputer, I will 

    need to move the .lrcat-data file in addition to .lrcat file. Ughhhh.....hours of work gone. But at least I now know the issue and can make these fixes pretty quickly.

    A
    AmandaLH
    Participant
    November 30, 2021

    Did you have to change anything in the import dialog? I'm an editor sending lrcat and lrcat-data files...and it's like Lightroom isn't reading the data files on import?

      B
      bellfree
      Participant
      November 18, 2021

      We're having the same issue! It's a huge problem -- especially since there's no obvious way to see if there's a mask that needs to be recomputed short of clicking into the masking panel on every single image.

        N
        nessak
        Participating Frequently
        November 15, 2021

        Hello!

         

        I'm currently having an issue where I outsource my editing and if my editors use any masks that include the new "select subject" or "select sky" features, I do not have access to that information automatically when they send me the catalog. 

         

        I've written more about this issue here:

         

        https://twitter.com/nessak/status/1459575966741811213

         

        Someone in the feed said it appeared to be an issue with the new .lrcat-data file. Does that also need to be included? 

         

        My process with how I work with editors is this:

         

        1) I download a single shoot lightroom catalog from my editor

        2) I import my images from that catalog into a main catalog for the full year 

         

        The sore spot is the next step in the process: 

         

        3) I have to go through each individual image to see if there is a mask being used to "select subject" or "select sky" because there is no indicator that there is a mask error anywhere obvious unless you are in the develop panel with the "masking" options open. 

        4) "recompute" each individual mask with an error (approx 10 seconds per image)

        5) Go to next image and try to find more errors. 

        Would love to be able to: 

         

        1 - see mask errors globally. anywhere! 

        2 - have mask information carry over once it's already been computed for that specific image

        3 - be able to build subject-aware masks globally if they need to be recomputed. 

        4 - while we're at it, i'd love it if copy/pasting masks worked better, too, but I know that's been mentioned in other threads!

          N
          nessak
          Participating Frequently
          November 15, 2021

          It would also be AMAZING if it could work on "recomputing" for a subject and I could do anything else in Lightroom -- work on another image, make adjustments to the current image -- anything other than just freezing up Lightroom for 10 seconds! 

          Rikk Flohr_Photography
          Community Manager
          Rikk Flohr_PhotographyCommunity Manager
          November 15, 2021

          You can add your voice to the new Masking Feature Requests which are found here: https://community.adobe.com/t5/forums/searchpage/tab/message?q=%22P:(Masking)%22&sort_by=-topicPostDate&collapse_discussion=true 

          Some of the specificially address asks you have. 

          Rikk Flohr: Adobe Photography Org
          P
          Pieter_ImagineAuthor
          Participant
          November 15, 2021

          I will do that first thing in the morning! Thanks for now!

          Rikk Flohr_Photography
          Community Manager
          Rikk Flohr_PhotographyCommunity ManagerCorrect answer
          November 15, 2021

          Effective with Lightroom Classic 11 (because of the new masking) it is necessary to send the .lrcat and the .lrcat-data (if it exists) along with the Smart Previews.  yourcatalogname.lrcat-data contains any AI-generated masks (in pixel form) that belong to the images in that catalog. Can you send the .lrcat-data to the client and have them place it alongside their .lrcat file (with Lightroom Classic closed) and relaunch Lightroom and see if the masks will reconnect?

          Now, having said that, it should not be necessary to recompute the AI mask but there may be a quality advantage to recomputing it when you are attached to the original over the smart preview. 

           

          Note: This also applies to other shared catalog scenarios such as sharing a catalog within other users or desktop to laptop. 

           

          Rikk Flohr: Adobe Photography Org
          Rob_Cullen
          Community Expert
          Rob_CullenCommunity Expert
          Community Expert
          November 15, 2021

          Hi @Rikk Flohr: Photography  So the 'new' .lrcat-lrdata introduces some new requirements with Client<>Editor catalogs.

          Will the .lrcat-lrdata file created by the editor integrate / combine with the 'Global' .lrcat-lrdata of the Client when catalogs are merged?

           

          Regards. My System: Windows-11, Lightroom-Classic 15.1.1, Photoshop 27.3.1, ACR 18.1.1, Lightroom 9.0, Lr-iOS 10.4.0, Bridge 16.0.2 .
            Rikk Flohr_Photography
            Community Manager
            Rikk Flohr_PhotographyCommunity Manager
            November 15, 2021

            If you are sending a SP Catalog as the originator to another person you should be sending the LRCAT and the LRCAT-DATA (which may not yet exist if you've not done any AI Masking yet on these images).

             

            If you are the person performing the work on the SP catalog, you should return both files to be reintegrated with the primary catalog.  

             

            The LRCAT-DATA should merge with an existing LRCAT-DATA in a master catalog with no issues. 

            Rikk Flohr: Adobe Photography Org
              P
              Pieter_ImagineAuthor
              Participant
              November 15, 2021

              I only transport the catalog-file back to the client. On my Mac LRCAT-DATA is a folder with several subfolders and .dat files. If I send this folder to the client, what should he do with it and would that solve the problem?

                Rikk Flohr_Photography
                Community Manager
                Rikk Flohr_PhotographyCommunity Manager
                November 15, 2021

                Are you transporting only the catalog (LRCAT) file or also including the LRCAT-DATA file (which includes the AI Masks)

                Rikk Flohr: Adobe Photography Org
                P
                Pieter_ImagineAuthor
                Participant
                November 15, 2021

                Yes, the client sees the update button and clicking on it solves the problem. But I don't want my clients to go through all the images to update them. They outsource the editing to me for a reason .... 

                  Jenn_at_WitsEnd
                  Jenn_at_WitsEnd
                  Known Participant
                  November 15, 2021

                  Try clicking on the mask with the ! icon. I think the AI just needs to re-look at the image. I've been getting this when I copy/paste my masks across photos. 

                  -- Jenn Mishra, photographer &amp; writer for Expert Photography &amp; Photzy
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