Reds are printing out orange in workflow from both lightroomcc and photoshop

New Here ,
Feb 06, 2019 Feb 06, 2019

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I am using both photoshop and lightroom creative cloud.  My monitor is a 24 inch Dell that I calibrate with Spyder5plus.

My printer is a Canon Pro-10.  I’m working on a Mac retina laptop running Mojave. 

The picture when viewed on the monitor looks great.  If I let the printer do the color management (colorsync) I get perfect duplication.  If I softproof using a profile, I get good results.  If I choose to let either lightroom or Photoshop manage color and assign a profile, the reds in the print lean heavily toward orange.  Over the last couple of days, I’ve tried every possible combination I could think of.  Another issue is that all of my Canon paper icc profiles have gone missing.  When I check my Library-colorsync-profiles folder, they aren’t in there, nor can I locate them anywhere on line.  I don’t think that has anything to do with the red/orange issue, but it might implicate the Canon driver somehow.  They were there until I updated the driver after updating Mojave.  Does anyone share a similar problem or have any ideas?  Thanks

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 06, 2019 Feb 06, 2019

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Test the output with this and tell us if you see the same issues:

http://www.digitaldog.net/files/2014PrinterTestFileFlat.tif.zip

Reinstall the Canon print driver and if it's anything like the Epson's, it will reinstall the paper profiles. 


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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New Here ,
Feb 07, 2019 Feb 07, 2019

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I downloaded and printed the test file you sent.  Thanks very much.  Once, again, the test print using printer colormatching (colorsync) was a very good representation of what I saw in my monitor.  When I printed it from with lightroom using Lightroom management and the same profile, the reds came out orange. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 07, 2019 Feb 07, 2019

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Lajoiephoto  wrote

I downloaded and printed the test file you sent.  Thanks very much.  Once, again, the test print using printer colormatching (colorsync) was a very good representation of what I saw in my monitor.  When I printed it from with lightroom using Lightroom management and the same profile, the reds came out orange. 

HOW it appears on the display isn't really important at this point, only the output which you report is still off. So it's either the profile or some user setting.

To determine if it's a profile issue, do you have another paper and profile you can again test with the same color reference file?


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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New Here ,
Feb 07, 2019 Feb 07, 2019

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I tested it using another paper and profile and got the same results--the print made out of Lightroom had oranges rather than reds.  BTW, I also created a new profile on my mac and tried printing from that profile but got the same results. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 07, 2019 Feb 07, 2019

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You created the profiles with what and how?

You see this with either Perceptual or RelCol?


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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New Here ,
Feb 07, 2019 Feb 07, 2019

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Sorry, I misspoke.  I created another account on my mac and used that user to print from Lightroom with the same results.  All my icc profiles were imported from manufacturer's sites, and I had been using them for some time before the problem manifested itself.  The only event I can remember being close to the time that the reds became orange was the updating of my system to Mojave 10.14.3

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 07, 2019 Feb 07, 2019

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Lajoiephoto  wrote

Sorry, I misspoke.  I created another account on my mac and used that user to print from Lightroom with the same results.  All my icc profiles were imported from manufacturer's sites, and I had been using them for some time before the problem manifested itself.  The only event I can remember being close to the time that the reds became orange was the updating of my system to Mojave 10.14.3

OK. That tells us that if there's an issue, it's from the main Library not your user Library.

At this point, I suspect the print driver, maybe a bug. But unless you can roll back a version of the OS and test, no way to know for sure.


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Explorer ,
Feb 07, 2019 Feb 07, 2019

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I know how frustrating this is.  I'm going through it myself.  Did you try to print the file from Preview?  What was the result?

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New Here ,
Feb 07, 2019 Feb 07, 2019

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I got a beautiful result from Preview using the same profile.  It is only from Adobe products that I'm getting the orange reds.  I tried resetting the defaults in the develop module of Lightroom after resetting my image.  I'm using a Sony A7rii which shoots in AdobeRGB.  I still got the orange reds when printing from inside the program.  Are you running Mojave on a Mac?  I'm wondering if there's a bad interaction there with an old Adobe file. 

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New Here ,
Feb 07, 2019 Feb 07, 2019

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Well, thanks for all your help. I'm going to reinstall the print driver and see if that doesn't help.  What is the best way of letting Adobe and Canon know about this problem?  I don't think I'm the only one who is having it.  I'll keep you posted.  Thanks again. 

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Explorer ,
Feb 07, 2019 Feb 07, 2019

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Interesting that Preview prints fine.  That should eliminate a printer problem or the print driver.  In my situation, I had uninstalled and reinstalled the print driver with no difference in results.

I am running Mojave 10.14.2.  My printer is an epson 7890.  I've run every test that I or anyone else could think of.  I did find that when I printed using LR or PS from a new user, I got good prints.  This indicates to me that Adobe has some screwed up user files and I have been waiting for them to tell me which files I should look at.  They are very silent and all they tell me is that I should open a new user account.  I would prefer to just delete the files that they tell me and reinstate them from my new user file.

I could certainly be a Mojave induced problem with Adobe as I believe that I started to experience the problem after installing Mojave.

Adobe seems to have a history of remaining silent and then all of a sudden an update happens and the problem goes away.  I simply hate that method of treating problems.  I wish they would just acknowledge that there is an issue and they are working on it.

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New Here ,
Feb 07, 2019 Feb 07, 2019

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It gives a perverse sense of assurance to hear that your problem is so like mine.  My instinct, like yours, is to suspect that Adobe hasn't been drafting close enough to Mojave and will eventually catch up.  In the meantime, using colorsync for matching is giving me good results.  Also, it seems that soft proofing in the develop module is functioning the way it should.  As for icc profiles, I'm thinking of spending the budget and getting some device to make my own.  Any suggestions?  Thanks for all your help.  I can't believe we're the only two Adobe users having this problem.  Keep the faith. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 07, 2019 Feb 07, 2019

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Might be Adobe, might be Canon. Or both.

If you examine the history, at least with Epson, there have been a number of issues over the years between Adobe and Epson prior to the two companies working closely together. What we need to do at the very least is bring this to the attention of Dave Polaschek of Adobe who handles the print side in Photoshop. See if he's got the same printer in house and can replicate this issue.


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Explorer ,
Feb 07, 2019 Feb 07, 2019

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Will you be contacting Dave Polaschek from Adobe?  That would be terrific.  I don't think I have a way of getting to him.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 07, 2019 Feb 07, 2019

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lrl117  wrote

Will you be contacting Dave Polaschek from Adobe?  That would be terrific.  I don't think I have a way of getting to him.

I can and direct him to this series of posts, but I'd like to wait until I know you've reinstalled the latest Canon driver from Canon and still see the same issue.


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Explorer ,
Feb 07, 2019 Feb 07, 2019

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this is the other conversation in the forum:     Re: Poor color printing in both Lightroom and Photoshop

It deals with my problem which seems to have some similarity to the problem in this discussion.

As I mentioned, my situation is still unsolved.

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New Here ,
Feb 07, 2019 Feb 07, 2019

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I went to the canon.usa site for the second time in two days and downloaded the only driver they have for the pro-10 printer.  I got the same results with the new driver and, by the way, did not get the Canon icc paper profiles downloaded with the driver.  It’s bizarre—they have third party profiles for Hahnemuhle and Red River papers, but the don’t have profiles to download for their own papers.  Both LR and PS use the profiles in Library-colorsync-profiles.  I can’t figure that one out.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 07, 2019 Feb 07, 2019

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Not a Canon user for years so I'm not certain the driver installs profiles.

I've sent an email to Adobe about this issue.


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Adobe Employee ,
Feb 08, 2019 Feb 08, 2019

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Hi. Andrew pointed me to this.

It sounds to me like a problem with the driver, since they way they *used* to work, the driver would use the profiles, even internally, and if they're not there, I have no idea what they would be using for color management. Also, without the profiles, you're not going to be able to do "Photoshop Manages Color" (because what would you match to?).

I've asked around to see if we have a Canon Pro-10 somewhere in-house, but I don't have access to one locally. I would try asking Canon Tech Support where you can find the profiles for their papers, and wondering why they weren't included with the driver.

Sorry for the trouble.

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New Here ,
Feb 08, 2019 Feb 08, 2019

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Thanks for your input.  I do use icc profiles other than those for Canon papers.  Ironically, I downloaded them from the Canon website.  They have many third party icc profiles to download, but none for their own products.  I'll contact Canon, but I don't expect miracles.  In the meantime, the question of why reds are interpreted by my Adobe products as in the orange spectrum remains suspended in the ether.  I certainly hope that someone inside Adobe investigates and corrects what seems to be a toxic interaction between LR, PS and Mac OS Mojave 10.14.3.  Thanks, again. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 08, 2019 Feb 08, 2019

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There can be issues/bugs simply between the OS and driver hosted by some applications. For example, after the Mojave update, my 3880 prints quite poorly IF the 16-bit check box is invoked but not if it's off. I made Epson aware of this issue. If they will fix this in an old product is a different story. But it's rather critical that the printer manufacturer get into the loop.


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Explorer ,
Feb 08, 2019 Feb 08, 2019

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Something doesn't seem to make sense to me.  If the problem is a driver, why does the problem disappear when you set up another user and print from LR and PS?  The other user account is using the same driver.  Also, why does the problem disappear when printing from Preview (on a Mac)?  Some of this discussion is beyond my pay grade but it still looks like the issue of possible corrupted adobe user files is not being addressed.  Are you ruling that out?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 08, 2019 Feb 08, 2019

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lrl117  wrote

Something doesn't seem to make sense to me.  If the problem is a driver, why does the problem disappear when you set up another user and print from LR and PS?  The other user account is using the same driver.  Also, why does the problem disappear when printing from Preview (on a Mac)?  Some of this discussion is beyond my pay grade but it still looks like the issue of possible corrupted adobe user files is not being addressed.  Are you ruling that out?

Because there can be differing calls to the driver from differing applications. And especially with Mac OS app's.

Case in point (and one that did end up getting adopted by a about three companies including Adobe); Some software products are using a private (undocumented) SPI called kPMApplicationColorMatching which you see in Photoshop and Lightroom and the Adobe Color Print Utility. When you set Application Manages Color, the area of the driver that controls Colorsync will alter the radio buttons such they are grayed out. Most other software products will not and here lies issues with undocumented SPI's etc. So again, it's super critical that both Adobe AND the printer manufacture be in the loop here.


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Explorer ,
Feb 08, 2019 Feb 08, 2019

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This almost souinds like the congressional hearing where it is impossible to get a straight answer.

My printer is an Epson 7890.  The driver is about 4-5 years old.  It has printed perfectly for years.  I am only concerned with Adobe LR and PS.  I'm not concerned about other software products and their interaction with the driver.  I may be missing something entirely but why can't I get an answer about specifically which user files may be controlling the color so I can replace them to see if that solves the issue?  I think Lajolephoto has the same issue with his Canon.  Thanks.

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