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Participating Frequently
May 10, 2023
Question

Sharpening on cropped or uncropped images

  • May 10, 2023
  • 3 replies
  • 2553 views

I don't see an answer to this question anywhere. Is sharpening applied to the uncropped image or to the cropped one? If I edit a 24MP and crop it to 4MP, is the sharpening applied to the 24MP and then cropped or to the 4MP?

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3 replies

Community Expert
May 10, 2023

The sharpening controls inside Lightroom Classic work on pixels. For example, you can change the pixel radius over which sharpening is determined. Amd the recommendation is to work at 1:1 zoom (or failing that, to use the small 1:1 preview window inside the Detail panel) so that you can see what is happening with the pixels and the picture content in its own local terms.

 

How large or small a part this local area of pixels plays within the overall image, including how prominently the sharpening of the picture details will show, is a separate matter. But that is no different than how prominently the pixels themselves will show, carrying with them (as they zoom larger in effect, when you crop smaller) any lens softness or diffraction or demosaicing issues which this same sharpening is attempting to mitigate. 

 

There's another aspect though: when exporting, output sharpening can be selected off / low / medium / high. For this purpose, if you crop down to a 4MP selection and then choose export settings amounting to 4MP, your export is more or less happening at original pixel resolution. But if you don't crop down from 24MP, and your export settings amount to 4MP, meeting that requires considerable downsizing, Output sharpening will 'understand' the practical difference between different export scenarios, and tries to allow for that towards a similar looking result regardless (when considered in terms of the final output pixels). Loosely: those will look the same amount sharper than they would otherwise have been, no matter whether you are exporting FROM 4MP or 24MP. Naturally that will also look different depending whether you are exporting TO 4MP ro 24MP.

 

The best way to evaluate all this, and there is a lot of sheer preference involved, is to simply try it.

TheDigitalDog
Inspiring
May 10, 2023

Capture and output sharpening (limited) are based on this; the product mentioned (in which I played a small role <g>) are connected at the hip. The concept and some of the sharpening routines were licensed by Adobe from Pixel Genius:

http://creativepro.com/out-of-gamut-thoughts-a-sharpening-workflow/ 

Author “Color Management for Photographers" &amp; "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
Conrad_C
Community Expert
Community Expert
May 10, 2023

I guess you could call it Schrodinger's Image Editor, in that any edits, including sharpening and cropping, are simultaneously there (as parametric edits you can preview) and also not there (not affecting the original); the edits are permanently applied only to an exported copy.

 

I just tried it, so it’s easy to confirm. I cropped an image, applied enough sharpening to be obvious, then open up the crop, and the sharpening is already in the area that was formerly cropped out.

 

Probably a good general way to think about it is:

If a non-masked edit is applied to a cropped image, it applies to the entire image, regardless of cropping. Because even the crop is permanently applied only to an exported copy.

 

So if we’re talking spatially, only a mask will persistently restrict the area of an adjustment.

 

The only exception I can think of is Post-Crop Vignetting, which by definition always stays within the crop area.

Participating Frequently
May 10, 2023

I'm definitely not able to explain properly. I attached an uncropped photo and a cropped one. Both were subjected to a sharpening amount of 85 in Lightroom and exported. First thing I noticed is that I can't align them in Photoshop which means that the images are not identical, although are from the same photo. I did my best to align both and then cropped the full res based on the LR crop. The size of both exported TIF (the Lightroom cropped and the full res cropped in Photoshop) was almost the same (the difference was propbably due to the fact that I couldn't align them), which means that Lightroom crops AFTER sharpening. I guess this also applies to noise reduction.

Community Expert
May 11, 2023

I guess this was a pertinent question because I did not know if I could apply the same sharpening to a cropped and an uncropped image in Lightroom and now I know I can. Thank you for the help guys

Now, if you want to keep going on the discussion of this subject, is the sharpening the same for a photo from a 45MP sensor and a 24MP? No crop here, just the sensor resolution


I don't even know what "the same" would mean when comparing sharpening a 45MP and a 24MP original.

 

Is becoming one year older "the same" on your sixth birthday, as it will be on your forty-third birthday? Absolutely yes, proportionately no, plus the excitement levels may be very different! Same thing with the varying significance (towards the whole picture and its intended usage) of pixel-level details, noise, sharpening and the like.

TheDigitalDog
Inspiring
May 10, 2023

The crop, like all edits, is totally nondestructive. All the edits are just instructions for processing upon Export (or Open in Photoshop). If and when you render the raw, it is what it was asked to be: cropped (maybe to 4MP) and sharpened for that crop. The original is untouched. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers" &amp; "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
Participating Frequently
May 10, 2023

Thanks, but it is not what I asked. I know it is nondestructive. What I asked is if the sharpening is applied to the 24mp image before being cropped or to the 4MP crop.

eg. Sharpening amount of 50 to the 24mp image and to the 4mp crop. Would the 24mp image cropped later to 4mp in photoshop be the same as the 4mp crop in Lightroom?

TheDigitalDog
Inspiring
May 10, 2023
quote

Thanks, but it is not what I asked. I know it is nondestructive. What I asked is if the sharpening is applied to the 24mp image before being cropped or to the 4MP crop.

eg. Sharpening amount of 50 to the 24mp image and to the 4mp crop. Would the 24mp image cropped later to 4mp in photoshop be the same as the 4mp crop in Lightroom?


By @madeinlisboa

 

I explained precisely how parametric editing would work in your example. 

Sharpening isn't applied to anything that isn't rendered. Not that it would matter. 

The Adobe Camera Raw engine makes the edits in what Adobe feels is the best processing order, NOT user order. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers" &amp; "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"