Thumbnails not reflecting edits; History panel blank for photos which have been edited.

[christinef58502318]

Hi, this is a post I put up on the Lightroom Queen forum - topic "Thumbnails not reflecting edits (and more!) - I am not able to add the link unfortunately.

My issues haven't been resolved so I am posting here instead!  I have added a note to that effect on the Lightroom Queen post.

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Original post

Lightroom Version Number 13.5.1 Operating System Windows 11

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Initially I thought there was a problem with Virtual Copies not showing edits, that is, the virtual copy looks exactly the same as the original in the thumbnails. Even looking at them in loupe view doesn't reflect the changes.

But I have now realised that the thumbnails for all my earlier photos (years' worth) are not showing edits! (However, edits done in the last few days do show correctly in the thumbnails.) These earlier thumbnails are showing the photographs as imported. If I go to the History panel, no step is highlighted (the top step is highlighted for more recently edited photos). Also, the 'Photo has Develop adjustments' icon is not showing on the thumbnail for these earlier photos, even though there are development steps in the History panel.

I think this has happened since the update to v.13.5 or possibly earlier. I have closed and restarted LR several times over the last few days (the issue with virtual copies was noticed several days ago), rebooted the computer, reset preferences, to no avail. The catalog was optimized, integrity checked and backed up 2 days ago.

I have just discovered that it's worse! I have just randomly checked some of the earlier photos which I know had development adjustments made (even virtual copies made), and they are not showing anything at all in the History panel, not even the Import step. I am starting to panic! I hope there is a simple solution which I have overlooked!

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My follow-up post:

Update - in my last post I said that my recent edits were OK, but now I notice that any changes have not even been saved and the only thing showing in the History panel is the Import date, despite me having eg. edited a photo and then created a Virtual Copy. Even the thumbnails for my recently created virtual copies have been lost. I do understand the non-destructive nature of LR Classic and that develop adjustments are in the catalog only.

As background, I have had all sorts of trouble with LR after the v13 update, whereas in the past (since 2011) I haven't had much trouble at all.

Initially the preview file didn't come across/get converted when updating to v.13 (possibly I didn't click on something re previews?). I have since generated the previews using Library>Previews>Build standard-sized previews. I had to do this because the previews did not generate as I scrolled. The thumbnail for the first photo appeared in grid view, then nothing as I scrolled down, and all the other thumbnails remained grey no matter how long I waited. This is still the case for some thumbnails which I may not have previously generated. It also happens on a second computer so I don't think it is an issue with the Lightroom software.

This is similar to the issue in a previous post:

"Lightroom Classic V13 not loading previews or showing any edits" on 20 Jan 2024 (it won't let me add the link)

Since v.13.5 (I think) I have had the issues as in my post above, which have still not resolved.

I have tried an older catalog and the History panel is still blank, and there is no 'develop adjustment' icon on the thumbnails - for thousands of photos!

Many thanks and I look forward to hearing from you.

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One answer:

I'm afraid I'm no Lightroom expert. But I have often seen in threads that resetting Lightroom preferences can solve weird problems. See this article but read it all through before deciding whether you want to try it or not.

Maybe someone who knows more about these things may weigh in too and say whether it wqould be worth a try.

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My reply:

Thank you for your reply David689. I had previously reset preferences to no avail. I have also just uninstalled (removing preferences) and reinstalled LR Classic but the problems persist. I am mystified!

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Please, is anyone able to help?  I know that my post is a bit convoluted!  It sort of evolved as I investigated further.

Basically the thumbnails are not showing any develop edits, there is no icon/badge saying that a photo has had develop adjustments even when I know it has been edited, the History panel is blank, going into loupe view doesn't make any difference - for thousands of photos!  

(I have noticed that some photos do have the edits in the History panel but that no step is highlighted, the thumbnail appears as unchanged, but when I move the cursor over the steps in the History panel the image does change to reflect the edits!).

I have investigated earlier catalogs from my backups and the issues are the same.  Is it a software issue?  I have reinstalled LR Classic today but these issues remain.

I am sorry this post is so long and do hope that someone has a solution!  

[dj_paige]

in my last post I said that my recent edits were OK, but now I notice that any changes have not even been saved and the only thing showing in the History panel is the Import date, despite me having eg. edited a photo and then created a Virtual Copy. Even the thumbnails for my recently created virtual copies have been lost.

Strong likelihood that you have (accidentally) imported the photos twice; you made edits to one copy, and no edits were made to the other copy (so History Panel shows nothing and the image appears unedited).

To solve this problem, you need to find both copies of these photos in Lightroom Classic. Please follow all four of these steps in order:

1. In the Lightroom Classic Library Module, on the left, under Catalog, click on All Photographs
2. Turn off all filters (Ctrl-L once or twice)
3. Turn off all stacking (Photo->Stacking->Expand All Stacks)
4. Search for at least one of these photos by file name using the Lightroom Classic Filter Bar

Side comment: some people almost refuse to do the search I describe, I don't know why, they keep trying other things, as if I had said nothing. But this search works for a lot of people.

[christinef58502318]

Thank you so much for your reply.  I have undertaken the steps you mention for several photos and there are no duplicates - which is unfortunate, as this would have been a simple solution! 

I am still trying to solve these issues:  

Badges - photos edited more recently have the develop and cropped badges (e.g. the blue silk photo and the cathedral façade photo), but those photos edited a while ago don't.

Virtual copies - final edits are not reflected in the thumbnails (e.g. the male statue should show two different crops)

History panel - sometimes it is completely blank (not even the Import step), sometimes the steps are there but no step is highlighted and the thumbnail shows the photo as it was when imported.  If the steps are in the History panel, moving the cursor upwards from the Import step changes the image appropriately.

[dj_paige]

I can't view your (or anyone's) file attachment. Please include your screen capture by clicking on the "Insert Photos" icon.

Also, I'd like to see a screen capture of the entire screen of the Lightroom Classic Library Module after you perform all four steps of the search I suggested.

[GoldingD]

See below a copy of your screenshot (annotated). Just one oddity, it appears that both the show Edited and show not edited buttons are selected. Why? Testing that out on my rig that is equivalent to selecting neither button. Just odd, probably not the issue.

[christinef58502318]

Yes, I noticed that after I posted it too!  Strange that it lets you do both at the same time!  But you are right that it is not the issue, as the issues are there even when no filters are active.

[GoldingD]

 this is a post I put up on the Lightroom Queen forum - topic "Thumbnails not reflecting edits (and more!) - I am not able to add the link unfortunately.

This link?

• https://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/threads/thumbnails-not-reflecting-edits-and-more.51249/

[christinef58502318]

Yes, that is the link.  I tried to add it to my post here but received a notification that I couldn't, don't know why! 

On another note, I ticked the box on my post saying to email me when someone replies, but I haven't receive any emails about your replies, just curious!

[GoldingD]

Does this issue show up in a new catalog?

And you may want to create a new catalog, and import from the old to the new to test.

[christinef58502318]

Thank you so much for your help.  The issues are not happening for my most recent edits so a new catalog might not show them, but I will try both suggestions.  Are there any tricks I need to be aware of when importing into a new catalog?

[richardplondon]

importing prior work into a new catalog can be done in one of two ways:

(what I think was NOT meant) conventionally importing the photos again from disk - 'as if for the first time': except that if edits had been at any time written out to file, those edits will get found and used for the initial appearance of the photo - but that will show no prior History steps, no Collection membership, none of its Virtual Copies (if any) will be present, etc

OR

(what I think was meant): using the "import from another Catalog" command. This transfers (merges) in from the other chosen Catalog not only a record of the importation of each image, not only latest edits but also its full editing History, Collection memberships etc as well as those of any Virtual Copies you may have made in the context of that other Catalog.

[christinef58502318]

Thank you for your reply Richard and for the alert.  I will do the latter, as I would hate to lose all of my edits, virtual copies etc that I have done over the last several years!  At the moment if I filter (properly!) for photos with edits with "All photographs" highlighted, only a few hundred out of 200,000 appear.  I am trying not to panic! 

I have just made a new test catalog and, as expected (because my most recent edits in my existing catalog don't show the issues), all is well.  It must be some historical issue.  I will now test "importing from another catalog" and cross fingers!  

Christine

[dj_paige]

At the moment if I filter (properly!) for photos with edits with "All photographs" highlighted, only a few hundred out of 200,000 appear. I am trying not to panic!

Turn off filters! Turn of stacking! Does that change the results you get in All Photographs?

[christinef58502318]

I have double-checked - all filters off, stacks expanded, no change in number edited (less if I collapse stacks!).  Thank you though!

[richardplondon]

You might also try going back through some Catalog backups to see if there was a moment when the problem started. Backed up Catalogs will need to be un-Zipped before they can be opened.

[christinef58502318]

Thank you and I really appreciate the help I am receiving. 

I had tested a couple of older catalogs a few days ago and they had the same problems, but I will try some even older ones today. 

I tried the 'new catalog/import from another catalog' test yesterday and it came up with the message "Lightroom could not import this catalog because of an unknown error".  If it is/they are corrupt catalogs they have been opening OK and when I quit LR I always test integrity and optimise, which hasn't revealed any issues.  

It is interesting that for some photos I have looked at, the History panel is completely empty, but if I go into Develop and click on the crop tool it will show crop lines which have been altered (but are not reflected in the thumbnail).  It is almost like something isn't reading the files properly.

I have been having issues since the v.13 update, especially with previews (see my lengthy original post!), so perhaps these other issues arose then.  If I have to roll back to v.12 (if I can find a backup!) will I loose all the work I have done since October last year?

Many thanks for your help.

[dj_paige]

It is interesting that for some photos I have looked at, the History panel is completely empty, but if I go into Develop and click on the crop tool it will show crop lines which have been altered (but are not reflected in the thumbnail). It is almost like something isn't reading the files properly.

This information is in (or should be in) the catalog, it isn't reading "the files" to get this information. Thus changing the software to an earlier version is unlikely to help. Checking older backups might be successful.

I would still like to see a screen capture of the unsuccessful search I asked you to try to find your photos. I would like to see the ENTIRE Library Module window.

[christinef58502318]

Thank you and my apologies for not doing this before, I appreciate your help.  I have attached a screenshot and hope it provides the information you require.

Are you still wondering if I have duplicate images?  Or is there something else you are looking for?  

This issue is with thousands of my images and I definitely don't have duplicates of thousands of photos!  I have checked many photos using the steps you suggest and no duplicates appear.  

I have noticed that I am getting the Metadata icons on some photos.  I have experimented with 'overwriting settings' on a few photos but it hasn't affected the issues with thumbnails and History panels.  I don't sync my photos, don't use any plug-ins, haven't even edited externally in Photoshop for years, and never do anything outside of LR!   I do understand that LR is non-destructive and that all information regarding edits etc in only in the catalog.  I shouldn't have used the word 'files'!

I have also included a screenshot of the virtual copy showing that the History panel is completely empty.

I will try more backups and see how I go!

[dj_paige]

I can't view your (or anyone's) file attachment. Please include your screen capture by clicking on the "Insert Photos" icon.

[christinef58502318]

[GoldingD]

In that last screenshot, I assume one or more photos are selected. But, both navigation panel and histogram are blank. This just screams corrupted preferences file. 

[christinef58502318]

Nothing is selected, hence nothing in these panels!  

[christinef58502318]

It was just to show that there aren't any duplicates.

[christinef58502318]

Issues with Version 13

I mentioned in my earlier posts above that I have had issues ever since v13 and doing some searching on the various forums it seems that we are not alone:

PREVIEWS:

"Upgrading catalog with 13-3 loses previews" 

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/upgrading-catalog-with-13-3-loses-previ...

Lightroom Classic V13 not loading previews or showing any edits

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/lightroom-classic-v13-not-loading-previ...

We also lost our previews when upgrading the catalog.  I am not sure whether this was to v13 or 13.3, but since then we have had to build all previews manually as they don't build as required, i.e. just by scrolling.  The first thumbnail in Grid view is there, then all the rest are grey, and remain so regardless of waiting or scrolling.  And it seems that we could/can only build 999 at a time!  That is, we can't leave it running to build all standard previews but have to highlight 999 in Grid View then generate previews.  This issue (stuck on just one preview) persists for those previews we have not generated manually.

Would any of this be the reason that the thumbnails don't reflect any edits?

HISTORY:

"P: All history lost when upgrading catalog" 

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-all-history-lost-when-upgrading-catal...

This post is an older one but there are recent additions to it on p.3 , and no answers!  Same as these posters we have had issues when converting the catalog for an upgrade (13 maybe, 13.3 definitely), with crashes, corruption, repairing etc. when just simply trying to upgrade.  We did think that we had it sorted out (until I noticed recently the issues raised in my post above) hence there was no need to roll back or use a backup catalog at that stage.  We don't appear to be the only ones who have lost history, even though the scenarios are possibly all a bit different.  

The issues definitely seem to be with v13, and this is of concern.  I am a keen intermediate user of LR.  I might not know all the technical jargon, but I am reasonably aware of how LR works.  I love Lightroom and all that it provides, with folder structure, editing, keywording, collections etc, all of which I have been using extensively for more than 12 years, but I am becoming disheartened.  

[christinef58502318]

We have spent days and days finding and checking older catalogs and the problems persist right back to the beginning of v13.  We have finally found a v12 catalog dated 30 August 2023 (which was held offsite) and have tested this catalog, using LR v12.5.2.

I have started a new post called "Reverting to v12.5.2 from v13.5.1 because of issues with v13".