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Robert Ades1
Participating Frequently
October 14, 2012
Question

Tone Curve vs. Basic Panel (LR 4.2)

  • October 14, 2012
  • 2 replies
  • 25530 views

I'm using LR 4.2 in a Windows 7 environment.

I'm trying to gain a deeper understanding how the four tonal sliders in the Tone Curve (Highlights, Lights, Darks, Shadows) compare or correspond to the four tonal sliders in the Basic Panel (Highlights, Shadows, Whites, Blacks) in terms of their impact on the image. 

How do these relate, how do their differ?  They seem to do sort of the same thing, but not quite. 

Can anyone help me understand this better, or point me to a tutorial that does?

Thank you,
Robert Ades

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    2 replies

    TheDigitalDog
    TheDigitalDog
    Inspiring
    October 14, 2012

    Might want to start by viewing this excellent free video:

    http://mulita.com/blog/?p=3945

    Then George goes into exhustive detail about ALL the sliders and options using PV2012 (and more)

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
    R
    Robert Ades1Author
    Participating Frequently
    October 15, 2012

    I actually have George Jardine's Develop series as well as the link above, which I have just gone back a re-watched.  It was these tutorials that got me all confused in the first place.  Here's why...

    In this tutorial, http://mulita.com/blog/?p=3945, right at minute 15, he talks about the highlight control.  Move the slider to the left  and you increase edge definition or enhancement.  But move it to the right and you increase contrast.  These sound like the same thing.  Because I associate edge definition wth clarity, I don't see how they're different.  Further, I don't really understand (actually I don't understand at all) why moving the highlight control to the left has any effect at all on edge defintion.

    TheDigitalDog
    TheDigitalDog
    Inspiring
    October 16, 2012

    Andrew, I'm not quite sure I get this.   If I move the highlight slider to the left, I do not see an increase in edge definition.  I do see an increase in contrast that arises in those regions at the far right of the tonal scale.  I realize this is not what you were talking about.  Perhaps you could explain why or when edge definition is affected so that I could look for it.


    Any sharpening is an adjustment to contrast, and hopefully targeting specific areas of the tone curve or with masking, edges. Changes in contrast can make the image appear sharpener or less so, but contrast in the context here takes place over broarder areas of the tone curve and are applied for reasons other than producing an appearance of sharpening.

    If you make a spectral gradient in Photoshop (just black to white) and load that into LR, it makes seeing what the sliders do to contrast within that range a lot easier. Now because you built that image in Photoshop, it isn't a true linear raw file, the results you see are not exactly the same as if you were working on a raw image. But the PS image can make it easiler to see what the sliders affect from shadow to highlight and how contrast is affected within a range from shadow to highlight. You might even want to make a version of the Gradient where it is broken up in say 21 steps.

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
    areohbee
    areohbee
    Legend
    October 14, 2012

    Unlike the tone curve, the basic sliders are backed by some intelligence, and it's possible to increase contrast in one region without a corresponding loss in contrast in another.

    Best results are had by getting as close as possible using the basic sliders, then use the tone curve to fine tune if need be.

    Rob

      R
      Robert Ades1Author
      Participating Frequently
      October 14, 2012

      Thanks for the reply. 

      I think I understand the Tone Curve better than the basic sliders because I can see how the adjustments affect the curve.  With the basic sliders, the chnages to the curve aren't shown -- reading contrast using just the histogram is more difficult.  How do you judge changes in contrast using just the basic sliders?

      Also, what do "whites" and "blacks" in the basic sliders correspond to in the tone curve?

      areohbee
      areohbee
      Legend
      October 14, 2012

      Whites & blacks correspond closest to moving the clipping points via the point curve (not the parametric tone curve). But, if I were you I would shy away from trying to draw too close a correspondence between basics and tone curve, and instead just learn to use the basic sliders by trial and error in conjunction with whatever learning aids you can find, including auto-tone (which goofs exposure but you can learn from what it does to the other sliders (in addition to exposure, you may also need to tweak blacks, and maybe even some of the rest...).

      For example, the behavior of exposure changes when it starts to get very bright, and contrast is tied to exposure, and which tones are highlights and which shadows vary from photo to photo, and depend on exposure. Also, blacks & whites are ostensibly for defining the clipping points, but should not be used first, and have very different behaviors depending on which direction you pull them and the dynamic range of the photo...

      PV2012 basics really rock, but can be tricky to learn - hang tough and enjoy...

      More tips here:

      http://forums.adobe.com/thread/968940?tstart=0

      http://forums.adobe.com/message/4259091#4259091

      Rob

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