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Question

Tone Curve vs. Basic Panel (LR 4.2)

Forum|Forum|13 years ago
October 14, 2012
2 replies
25530 views

I'm using LR 4.2 in a Windows 7 environment.

I'm trying to gain a deeper understanding how the four tonal sliders in the Tone Curve (Highlights, Lights, Darks, Shadows) compare or correspond to the four tonal sliders in the Basic Panel (Highlights, Shadows, Whites, Blacks) in terms of their impact on the image.

How do these relate, how do their differ? They seem to do sort of the same thing, but not quite.

Can anyone help me understand this better, or point me to a tutorial that does?

Thank you,
Robert Ades

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TheDigitalDog

Inspiring

Might want to start by viewing this excellent free video:

http://mulita.com/blog/?p=3945

Then George goes into exhustive detail about ALL the sliders and options using PV2012 (and more)

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

R

Robert Ades1Author

Participating Frequently

I actually have George Jardine's Develop series as well as the link above, which I have just gone back a re-watched. It was these tutorials that got me all confused in the first place. Here's why...

In this tutorial, http://mulita.com/blog/?p=3945, right at minute 15, he talks about the highlight control. Move the slider to the left and you increase edge definition or enhancement. But move it to the right and you increase contrast. These sound like the same thing. Because I associate edge definition wth clarity, I don't see how they're different. Further, I don't really understand (actually I don't understand at all) why moving the highlight control to the left has any effect at all on edge defintion.

areohbee

Legend

Okay, I downloaded the test pattern from here:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/4602370#4602370

I apologize for seeming like an idiot, but when I move the highlight slider to the left, all I see is a darkening of the brighter panels, mostly in #5 to #40. Should I be seeing an increase in the definition of the edges?

Disclaimer: nothing in here that hasn't already been said. I just thought it might help to have it again put another way...

Robert Ades1 wrote:
I apologize for seeming like an idiot...

I think you were just confused by the terminology.

To reiterate what trshaner said: highlights slider (negative direction) essentially just recovers and debrightens highlights. The term "edge definition" when used in conjunction with the highlights slider just means: "you can see things in the highlights now that you couldn't before...". It won't enhance local contrast like the clarity slider or sharpening algorithms..., although sometimes it seems like it does... - it can help to fan-out the highlights which increases intra-region contrast - which does increase "intra-highlight edge definition" in a manner of speaking...

Robert Ades1 wrote:
when I move the highlight slider to the left, all I see is a darkening of the brighter panels, mostly in #5 to #40. Should I be seeing an increase in the definition of the edges?

No. there may be a sense of enhanced edges *within* highlights, in real photographs (which have enhanceable detail in the highlights), but the highlights slider absolutely does not enhance edges in the traditional sense of the term (which generally is used in the context of sharpening or clarity...). In the test pattern, a darkening of the brighter panels is all that should be expected.

Hope this helps,

Rob

areohbee

Legend

Unlike the tone curve, the basic sliders are backed by some intelligence, and it's possible to increase contrast in one region without a corresponding loss in contrast in another.

Best results are had by getting as close as possible using the basic sliders, then use the tone curve to fine tune if need be.

Rob

R

Robert Ades1Author

Participating Frequently

Thanks for the reply.

I think I understand the Tone Curve better than the basic sliders because I can see how the adjustments affect the curve. With the basic sliders, the chnages to the curve aren't shown -- reading contrast using just the histogram is more difficult. How do you judge changes in contrast using just the basic sliders?

Also, what do "whites" and "blacks" in the basic sliders correspond to in the tone curve?

areohbee

Legend

Whites & blacks correspond closest to moving the clipping points via the point curve (not the parametric tone curve). But, if I were you I would shy away from trying to draw too close a correspondence between basics and tone curve, and instead just learn to use the basic sliders by trial and error in conjunction with whatever learning aids you can find, including auto-tone (which goofs exposure but you can learn from what it does to the other sliders (in addition to exposure, you may also need to tweak blacks, and maybe even some of the rest...).

For example, the behavior of exposure changes when it starts to get very bright, and contrast is tied to exposure, and which tones are highlights and which shadows vary from photo to photo, and depend on exposure. Also, blacks & whites are ostensibly for defining the clipping points, but should not be used first, and have very different behaviors depending on which direction you pull them and the dynamic range of the photo...

PV2012 basics really rock, but can be tricky to learn - hang tough and enjoy...

More tips here:

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/968940?tstart=0

http://forums.adobe.com/message/4259091#4259091

Rob

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