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A
Anonymous
October 24, 2011
Question

Using Wide Gamut (Dell u2711) With Lightroom

  • October 24, 2011
  • 4 replies
  • 33440 views

I have just completed an upgrade of my computer system to include 2 Dell U2711 27" monitors.  I am using LR 3.5.  My system is running with Windows 7 64 bit and a ATI Firepro graphics card running the displays. 

Before purchasing these, and listening to the chatter on various forums I was led to belive that I was going to get garish coloration on all applications except Adobe LR and CS5.  This does not seem to be the case.  LR and CS5 are fine and the other applications IE and Windows Office seem to be OK as well.

These displays are calibrated at the factory.

Does anyone have any experience with these and can share any "gotchas" with me.

Henry

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    4 replies

    TheDigitalDog
    TheDigitalDog
    Inspiring
    October 27, 2011

    grandpahenry wrote:

    Does anyone have any experience with these and can share any "gotchas" with me.

    The flash galleries are not color managed so when you move from say Develop to Web, load a Flash web gallery, the previews will be slightly different (as well the resulting flash web gallery you view).

    In terms of LUTs, great when used within the panel itself as a tiny number of displays support (Eizo, NEC SpectraView), not useful when used on the graphic system. Ideally the graphic card LUT is totally linear, the LUT in the panel handles everything.

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
    A
    Anonymous
    November 1, 2011

    I have spoken to 2nd level support both at ATI and Dell and have learned the following:

    1.  The ATI Firepro V5800 does not modify color for data passing through the graphics card.  All color adjustment is through the profiles used with the display.

    2.  With the Dell U2711 any calibration done on the monitor "must" be done using the "custom" preset.  When that is done the resulting profile will only apply to the "custom" preset leaving the other factory supplied presets in tact and will be one I use during photo processing and perhaps all applications depending on how the non-photo applications appear on the display.    

    Just as an aside, I have tested using the factory presets sRGB and Adobe RGB (wide gamut) and find that the resulting display and prints a nearly a match even though I am using a generic PNP driver and no profile at all. .  I am using an Epson 3880, Epson Ink, Epson paper, and Epson ICC profiles.  There is a bit of variance in flesh tones that I have not figured out. One thing that I have noticed that the dark print problem that used to plauge me when using my previous Viewsonic monitors.  I used to have to boost the brightness setting in LR otherwise the prints would be way to dark.  I have not experienced the "garish" results with IE8 and Office 2010 as had been reported in the ether. As I test I installed Firefox 7.1 and did not see a lot of difference in appearance,

    My camera is a Canon 5D Mark II shooting in RAW mode.  I am using the Prophoto as my work space in LR 3.5 and CS5

    I am

    C
    CSS_Simon
    Participating Frequently
    November 1, 2011

    Interesting information, thanks for sharing.

    One experiment you might like to try: measure the factory Adobe RGB and sRGB modes with your Spyder.  I don't know if the supplied software alows you do this (I don't think so), but the "Colorimetre HCFR" software (download link half way down this page: http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/index_en.php) works with most colorimeters, and allows you to measure colour space, gamma and so on. 

    Sample display below, and you can also show colour temp, gamma etc:

    http://www.simongarrett.co.uk/CaptureHCFR.JPG

    P
    Panagon-1
    Participant
    October 26, 2011

    Henry, for educational purpose you may want to read the discussion below:

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/3283197#3283197

    C
    CSS_Simon
    Participating Frequently
    October 25, 2011

    Which colour preset mode are you using?  If you are using sRGB then you have effectively set your wide-gamut monitor into a standard-gamut mode. 

    A
    Anonymous
    October 25, 2011

    Thank you for your reply.  My Dell monitors arrived with a color calibration factory report apparently tied to the individual monitor serial number.  I purchased 2 and the test reports list different serial numbers.  Dell used a Minolta Color Analyzer CA210.  I have a Datacolor DC S3SSR100 Spyder 3 Studio SR which I plan to use as soon as I fully understand my use of these new monitors.  These monitors have a number of presets that include sRGB and Adobe RGB. I currently have both monitors set to the Adobe RGB preset.  In fact one of the reasons for choosing the U2711 was the choices of presets.  My original plan was to use the Adobe RGB preset only when doing photo editing and use sRGB when using IE 8 and other non-color aware applications.  But I don't seem to need to switch back and forth. 

    When I was doing the research I was advised that although LR 3 and CS5 were color aware and using ProPhoto as their working space I would be disapointed in the way colors would be displayed for applications such as IE 8 and MS Office.  My Epson 3880 printer is capable of displaying wide gamut.  The colors displayed seem a little different but not "garish" as I was led to believe.  Also my display screen background picture, a 100% quality JPG photo taken with my Canon 5D II does seem OK to me.  I am pleased with the way my photos display in LR and CS5.

    The one thing that I have noticed is that there seems to be no observable, at least to me, of the material displayed when I switch between the sRGB and Adobe RGB presets.  I am using Windows 7 64 Bit. 

    One thing that has me puzzled is that when I display the Windows settings using the "Screen Resolution" the monitor is set to "True Color".  I have seen that setting before on my previous system, XP Pro, and am wondering if I have missed something in my setup process.  When I received the monitors I was told that they are "plug and play" and did not require any special drivers.  I just hooked them up using Display Port cables and they cam right up at the maximum resolution of 2560 x 1440. 

    My questions are:

    1.  Why am I not seeing the disapointing performace that folks warned me about if I used wide gamut displays?

    2.  Have I missed something in my setup? 

    3.  I am assuming that when I calibrate I will have to calibrate the Adobe RGB preset and each other preset if I choose to use any others.

    Todd Shaner
    Todd Shaner
    Legend
    October 26, 2011

    I don't have any problem "calibrating".  I have the top of the line Datacolor Spyder 3 Studio SR and plan to use it as soon as I clear up a few things that I don't understand.  I am getting 2 different answers from Dell regarding drivers for the 2711.  One tells me that I don't need any drivers as long as I am getting full functionality, i.e., resolution, etc. from the device.  After I hooked them up they were recognized at full resolution.  Another person at Dell tells me that I should download the latest version of the driver apparently available in a self extrating file called monitor.exe, which is on the CD.  That CD is not even mentioned in the Dell setup guide. As simon suggested I searched the CD and found a file U2711.icm 

    I guess I could copy that file over to the location on the C drive where profiles are stored an select it just to see what might happen.  As I said there is no profile associated with either monitor.

    I tried getting escalated to a level 2 tech but got cutoff during the process.  What I am trying to learn is should I select a u2711 preset prior to beginning the calibration process.  There is a preset called "custom", should I choose that one.  If the profile only becomes active when I choose that preset then I could just choose custom whenever I am using my two main color aware applications, LR 3.5 and CS5.

    I did speak with Datacolor and mentioned a comment that I had seen that the LUT tables in the monitors were not reachable with software.  They gave me a program called Gammatest.exe wou which verified that the LUT tables were available to Spyder 3.


    I did speak with Datacolor and mentioned a comment that I had seen that the LUT tables in the monitors were not reachable with software. They gave me a program called Gammatest.exe wou which verified that the LUT tables were available to Spyder 3.

    1) Did you run this test yourself and are you sure it indicated the 'Dell u2711 LUTs' were accessable, and it wasn't detecting the two LUTs in your ATI FirePro graphics card?

    2) Did Datacolor provide you a procedure for having the Spyder software load the calibration data into the Dell u2711's display LUT? There would need to be an option in the Spyder software to convert the profile data to a format compatible with the Dell monitor's LUT hardware, and then a way to load it (DDC?). Perhaps Datacolor can provide you with more detailed instructions.

    If this is possible, you will still need to assign a monitor profile in Windows so applications can identify the display correctly (i.e. wide gamut Adobe RGB profile). A suitable profile may in fact be the Dell u2711.icm file provided on CD.

    IMHO – Wide gamut display technology has a long way to go before it is 'Plug & Play,' AND affordable. This will require Display manufacturers and Calibration Equipment manufacturers working together to develop compatible hardware and software. To my knowledge only EIZO and NEC have done so, but at a price only a professional can justify. In addition, 30 bit color support is needed to help prevent "stair-stepping" due to the extended gamut range. Currently only PS CS5 supports 30 bit color, but only when using a 30 bit graphics card with Open GL support. Lightroom currently does not support Open GL or 30 bit color.

    ambienttroutmask
    ambienttroutmask
    Participating Frequently
    October 24, 2011

    Factory calibration means that a standard profile will have been supplied with your machine for use by the OS for installation from a disk or just that the monitor has been checked to see that it actually can display a wider gamut than sRGB, it does not mean that the individual monitor has a individual profile created for use by your OS in your viewing conditions (as this would be impossible). The problems with standard calibrations are many

    • Each monitor varies.
    • Viewing conditions also vary.
    • Often these profiles are corrupt.

    It is always best to calibrate your monitor using the appropriate calibration device and to preform the calibration on a regular basis a profile is essential for colour managed applications to work well. For colour managed applications such as LR this is very important and even more so on wide gamut monitors if your output images are to achieve any sort of consistency when viewed on other monitors.

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