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Question

Very oversaturated red in HEIF 4:2:2 HLG photos

Forum|Forum|2 years ago
March 12, 2024
5 replies
3988 views

Bug in handling of HEIF photo files. I have been using HEIF 4:2:2 HLG (Hybrid Log Gamma) with my Sony A6700. I have noticed that red is extremely oversaturated and blown out when I import into LrC (currently using 13.2). But it is displayed properly in XnView MP (currently 1.6.5). Here are screenshots to show what I mean. LrC is doing something weird and wrong here. I have not found a setting that turns off their bad, incorrect behavior in LrC.

For quite some time Sony, Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Panasonic, etc. produce these 3 photo file types: raw, JPEG, and HEIF. Adobe which makes the premiere, industry standard photo applications is expected to, at least, properly handle the 3 photo file types all the major camera makers produce. But they don't.

Recently when I saw that I could import HEIF files and noticed that they seemed to look okay, I could edit, export, etc. I thought I was good to go. I didn't notice any big problem until I imported this photo with lots of red yesterday and saw something was seriously out of whack. Adobe, please fix this.

LrC 13.2:

XnView MP 1.6.5:

This topic has been closed for replies.

shikamuAuthor

Known Participant

The Mac photo Preview app also does not blow out and oversaturate the red in this photo.

shikamuAuthor

Known Participant

I decided to ask ChatGPT the following question and got an excellent reply.

Question:

Why does Lightroom Classic blow out and oversaturate red in unedited Cony HEIF HLG photos when in SDR mode, but XnView does not?

Answer:

The difference in behavior between Lightroom Classic and XnView regarding blown-out highlights and oversaturated colors in unedited Sony HEIF HLG photos when in SDR mode could be due to several factors:

1. Color Management and Rendering: Lightroom Classic and XnView may use different algorithms and color management approaches when interpreting and rendering HEIF HLG files. XnView may handle color space conversion and tone mapping differently, resulting in more accurate representation of colors, including reds, in SDR mode.

2. Tone Mapping Algorithms: Each software application may use its own tone mapping algorithms when converting HDR content to SDR. XnView's tone mapping algorithms might be better optimized for HEIF HLG files, resulting in more natural-looking colors and reduced risk of blown-out highlights and oversaturation.

3. Software Settings and Presets: Lightroom Classic and XnView may apply different default settings or presets when opening HEIF HLG files, affecting how colors are rendered and whether highlights are preserved or blown out. XnView's default settings may be better suited for handling HDR content in SDR mode.

4. DR Support and Optimization: XnView may have specific optimizations or features tailored for handling HDR content, including HEIF HLG files, in SDR mode. These optimizations could result in more accurate color rendition and better preservation of highlight and shadow detail compared to Lightroom Classic.

5. Bug or Issue in Lightroom Classic: It's also possible that there is a bug or issue in the version of Lightroom Classic you're using that affects its handling of Sony HEIF HLG files in SDR mode. This could lead to incorrect color rendition, blown-out highlights, and oversaturation.

JohanElzenga

Community Expert

Don't use HLG for photos. It's a video only profile. I would also advise you to use raw rather than HEIF for photos. I assume this camera can shoot in raw?

-- Johan W. Elzenga

johnrellis

Legend

"Don't use HLG for photos. It's a video only profile."

I'm not sure this is accurate. Rikk indicated that, contrary to the documentation, HDR 10-bit HEIF formats are supported by LR for HDR editing:

https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/using/hdr-output.html#hdr

"Open other HDR formats, such as 10-bit HEIF (.HIF file extension) files from recent Canon, Nikon, and Sony cameras."

Sony's a6700 documentation seems to imply that when HLG is selected, it records the images using industry-standard HEIF options:

https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2320/v1/en/contents/201h_HLG_photo.html?search=heif

By using gamma characteristics equivalent to HLG (Hybrid Log-Gamma: standard for HDR images), you can shoot still images with a wide dynamic range and a wide color gamut compatible with BT.2020.

[HLG Still Image] can only be set when shooting in the HEIF format. Set [JPEG/HEIF Switch] to [HEIF(4:2:0)] or [HEIF(4:2:2)], and [File Format] to [HEIF] beforehand.

(This is in contrast to the various non-standard video log options that Sony lets you apply when recording a raw image -- the raw image itself is not affected by v-log setting and is the same regardless of the setting.)

As with any technical issue in flux, I couldn't find anything authoritative and precise about Sony HEIF HLG (lots of heat but little light on dpreview.com, of course). I found just two purported sample Sony HEIF HLG images for download:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4535779

I'm not very knowledgeable about HEIF, but Exiftool seems to indicate they use industry-standard HDR encoding:

[QuickTime] Transfer Characteristics : SMPTE ST 2084, ITU BT.2100 PQ
[QuickTime] Matrix Coefficients      : BT.2020 non-constant luminance, BT.2100 YCbCr

On my Macbook Pro M2 Max Mac OS 14.2.1, the two images display the same in Mac Photos, Mac Preview, Mac Safari, Mac Xnviewmp, LR 13.2 Loupe, and LR 13.2 Develop. (Unfortunately, I can't post the results here, because the original poster specifically requested not to republish without permission.)

Further, when I edit the two images in LR Develop and select HDR, they clearly support a much wider dynamic range (visible only in Develop, not Loupe, of course).

shikamuAuthor

Known Participant

@shikamu, please upload the problematic .hif to Dropbox, Google Drive, or similar and post the sharing link here. Based on what Rikk said about the incorrect documentaiton and HEIF from other cameras now being supported and the research I did above about Sony HEIF HLG, I think you may be stumbling over a bug. But to determine that more authoritatively and for Adobe to pay attention, we'll need a sample image.

Also, try taking the image into Develop and clicking HDR at the top right of the Basic panel. Does the image now look better?

Okay, maybe this will work. It is a link to dropbox and the HEIF file above.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gksbjekxl3sondu0rsui8/DSC00613.HIF?rlkey=qbcxeaosch7vjishx00j9h0fo&dl=0

Let me know if you can get it.

shikamuAuthor

Known Participant

Yes, I know that. Thank you for your response.

For quite some time Sony, Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Panasonic, etc. produce these 3 photo file types: raw, JPEG, and HEIF. Adobe which makes the premiere, industry standard photo applications is expected to, at least, properly handle the 3 photo file types all the major camera makers produce. But they don't.

johnrellis

Legend

LR doesn't support HEIF from other than IOS and Android devices. For details, see the discussion in @shikamu's other thread:

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/threads/very-oversaturated-red-in-heif-4-2-2-hlg-photos.49802/

Rikk Flohr_Photography

This is not accurate. HIF files from DSLRs/Mirrorless support began in April 2023.

I see the help document is out of date: https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-cc/kb/heic-files-support.html
I will request it be updated.

Also see: https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/using/hdr-output.html

"Open other HDR formats, such as 10-bit HEIF (.HIF file extension) files from recent Canon, Nikon, and Sony cameras."

Rikk Flohr: Adobe Photography Org

johnrellis

Legend

"HIF files from DSLRs/Mirrorless support began in April 2023."

Excellent.

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