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Answered

Why does moving a file on disk cause previous to become permanent?

Forum|Forum|7 years ago
May 6, 2018
3 replies
6009 views

Hi Lightroom experts,

I am using Lightroom Classic CC on my Mac. Both on latest versions. Within Lightroom, when I move a file from one folder to another I get a pop up with the following message/warning.

Quote:

Moving a File on Disk

This will cause the corresponding file on disk to be moved. If you proceed, neither this move nor any change you've made prior to this can be undone.

End quote

Why is this so? Is there no way to move a file in lightroom and keep the ability to undo previous edits?

Some times I edit an image and then realize I need to move it to a different folder or rename the folder. Given the above, I would lose my edits. This seems wrong and should be an easy feature to add.

Thanks,

Puneet

Correct answer Rob_Cullen

The message can generally be ignored! It simply means that the file 'move' cannot be undone by [Ctrl+Z] the "Undo" command as the file 'move' is a command to the Operating System. You can however move the file again with the same procedure, and you will not lose any edits or development of a file by moving it folder-to-folder within the LR Folders panel.

Christophe50

Known Participant

Bonjour,

J'utilise Lightroom pour déplacer mes photos du SSD de mon iMac vers un NAS depuis de nombreuses années. Ayant un peu de temps, je voudrai faire du tri dans mes photos et transférer les photos les plus anciennes vers mon NAS et en faire une copie sur un disque dur externe.

Cela ne m'a jamais posé de problème jusqu'à aujourd'hui. Lorsque, depuis Lightroom, je déplace un dossier de mon SSD vers le NAS, une fenêtre s'affiche avec le message suivant :

Déplacement de fichiers sur le disque.

Ceci déplacera les fichiers correspondants sur le disque. Si vous continuez, ce déplacement, ou toute modification effectuée avant ce dernier, sera irréversible.

Quel est le sens de ce message ?

Vais-je perdre toutes les améliorations apportées à mes photos ?

Ou bien, ne pourrai-je plus revenir à l'état original de mes photos ?

Avant toute validation, je voudrai être sûr de ce que je fais. Je n'avais pas ce message par le passé.

Rob_Cullen

Community Expert

@Christophe50 Did you understand the (correct) answer I gave in this forum thread?

If you move files in the folder panel of Lightroom-CLASSIC then the error message would be normally expected ( [CMD+Z] will not 'undo' ). Edits stored in the Catalog will remain linked to the files in their new NAS location, (as long as you do NOT remove the images from the catalog).

To "make a copy of them on an external hard drive" will require you to use a third party action (Finder, Time Machine, etc) to copy the files.

Regards. My System: Windows-11, Lightroom-Classic 15.1.1, Photoshop 27.3.1, ACR 18.1.1, Lightroom 9.0, Lr-iOS 10.4.0, Bridge 16.0.2 .

Christophe50

Known Participant

Hello @Rob_Cullen,

Thank you, I was actually able to read this discussion following the movement of my question here. My level of English is not exceptional, but between the translation tools and what I was able to understand, I understood that this will not cancel the changes I may have made to my photos.

What I understand less is why this message appears when I don't remember having it the last time I did this kind of manipulation. But maybe my memory fails me.

T

tonyb75936444

Participant

Do not ignore this message! When moving JPEG-, TIFF-, PNG- and PSD-files IN Lightroom this problem does not occur. When moving proprietary files like Nikon NEF-files it does! Reason for this: al your previous LR-edits are stored by LR inside the file (the photo) itself, with the exception of proprietary files.These proprietary files store edit-data in a seperate .XMP file. In LR this option is set to OFF by default!

You will find this setting in the Catalog Settings of Lightroom.
MAC > Lightroom > Catalog Settings > Metadata
PC > Edit > Catalog Settings > Metadata

When this setting is changend to ON, LR will create a separate, but tiny .XMP file for its photos on your HDD. Makes it a bit messy now in your photo folders, but just ignore these .XMP files. But keep them allways in the same folder as your photos. When creating .XMP files is done (can take a some time depending on the amount of photos) you can freely move your photos IN Lightroom between folders, keeping all your previous edits. Beware: NEVER move files used by LR using Windows Explorer. If you do, the connection between these files and LR will be lost.

Tony

Rob_Cullen

Community Expert

"When moving JPEG-, TIFF-, PNG- and PSD-files IN Lightroom this problem does not occur. When moving proprietary files like Nikon NEF-files it does! "

Not correct. You can successfully move any file IN the Lightroom-Classic folder panel while maintaining all edits.

If you create XMP sidecar files for proprietary raw files, LrC intelligently moves both the raw file and any accompanying XMP file together. (Test it!)

(I never use or create .XMP sidecar files, so the situation is moot for me. I prefer to rely of regular Catalog backups to store edits, Collections, and more, for my photo library.)

"But keep them allways in the same folder as your photos. "

That is true especially if you ever do move files with File Explorer/Finder.

"NEVER move files used by LR using Windows Explorer. If you do, the connection between these files and LR will be lost."

True, and good advice, however if a photo becomes "Missing" in the catalog (by an OS move) then a re-link of the image in the Catalog will fully 'restore' all edits, etc. 'Nothing' is lost, as long as the image preview has not been 'Removed' from the catalog (edits are stored IN the catalog.).

Regards. My System: Windows-11, Lightroom-Classic 15.1.1, Photoshop 27.3.1, ACR 18.1.1, Lightroom 9.0, Lr-iOS 10.4.0, Bridge 16.0.2 .

T

tonyb75936444

Participant

Hi Ron,

Not to be nitpicking, but that was what I said. Use XMP files if you want to move proprietary RAW files like NEF in Lightroom. Problem is, it is hard to find out how. The auto XMP function is set to off by default in Lightroom. You have to tick this option yourself. If not, moving proprietary RAW files in Lightroom WILL lead to losing your edits (the editing steps I mean, not the edited files). Lightroom will neatly move your edited files, but as a completely new file. Without any option to step back in the editing proces later. And that was the problem mentioned by Puneet (aka PS74). And judging by the many questions on this subject elsewhere online, apparently Puneet is not the only one struggling with this problem.

And Rob, you are right on the files not being ´lost´ in Lightroom when moved in Win Explorer. They are indeed only ´missing´ and can be easely re-linked.

Regards,

Tony

Rob_Cullen

Correct answer

Community Expert

The message can generally be ignored! It simply means that the file 'move' cannot be undone by [Ctrl+Z] the "Undo" command as the file 'move' is a command to the Operating System. You can however move the file again with the same procedure, and you will not lose any edits or development of a file by moving it folder-to-folder within the LR Folders panel.

Regards. My System: Windows-11, Lightroom-Classic 15.1.1, Photoshop 27.3.1, ACR 18.1.1, Lightroom 9.0, Lr-iOS 10.4.0, Bridge 16.0.2 .

R

richardplondon

Community Expert

One reason for just pausing at this point, is that moving a file around in this way may have some other un-noticed and un-notified consequences within the LR image library... besides the inefficiency of it so far as backup etc.

Now if you are fully aware of these consequences, that is perfectly fine of course - that is what you moved it for!

What consequences? A given image may show up in multiple places - in Collections and Smart Collections as well as in a particular Folder view. Furthermore Virtual Copies of this same image, differently edited, may also appear in any of these contexts.

Normally so far as a standard Collection is concerned, the location of an image on disk is beside the point - an image that's moved or renamed on disk from within LR, WILL normally continue to appear in any collections it is a member of, unaffected.

However when it appears in a Smart Collection solely, or partly, because of the folder it belongs to then that WILL be affected when location on disk changes. For example. sometimes people may include a systematic word appearing in the folder name (say, the name of a client) among the inclusion rules for a Smart Collection (say, referring to that client). If an image is then moved into a different folder, the name of which does not include that word, then this will (silently) disappear from that Smart Collection... or from that Publish Smart Collection, or whatever.

This is a roundabout way of saying, moving stuff around as a matter of workflow or management, needs a little more thinking through in LR than it would in (for example) a Bridge-based workflow.

Some people habitually like to use physical folders to categorise images that have been, or are to be worked on - or that are special in some way - but in LR it is simply better practice IMO to express such things via catalog metadata instead (ratings, labels etc), and to leave all images be (regardless of their editing, selection, usage) once they are physically filed into a suitable folder according to their capture.

Why 'according to their capture'? Because that is a persisting fact about an image, never changing or being reconsidered thereafter.

Rob_Cullen

Community Expert

Thanks Richard, for putting the finer points to the question and the implications of moving files.

My 'simple' answer explains the reason for the message seen by the OP. I never considered the implications as you described.

Regards. My System: Windows-11, Lightroom-Classic 15.1.1, Photoshop 27.3.1, ACR 18.1.1, Lightroom 9.0, Lr-iOS 10.4.0, Bridge 16.0.2 .

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