P: Better keyword management

[joopsnijder]

How about some better support for keyword management. It's very basic now. I would like to do the following tasks:- Delete multiple keywords at once. Not all plugins do handle hierarchy keywords well and add all the keywords to the root level. It's a tedious task to delete them one by one.- Search for duplicates.- Merge keywords. With lots of tricks, it can be done, but it's so inefficient.- Import keywords from within any level in the keyword hierarchy. Now you can only import keywords to the root level.- And for now last but most important: Real external editing of the keyword list. Moving keywords around and doing real heavy reorganization is difficult in LR. I would like to have an editing option like exporting and when reimported all changes are reflected in LR.

[Califdan2]

Deb, this capability already exists.  Go to the grid view in the Library module and select the images you want remove the keyword from.  Then, in the right panel group, in the "Keyword List" panel navigate to the keyword you want to take off the images. If all the images selected actually have that KW there will be a check mark to the left of the KW name.  Either click that check mark or right click on the keyword name and select "remove keyword from selected photos",   That's it. 

[DebS55]

Thank you John.  I have tried the second method, but the keyword stays attached to all images except the one I have highlighted "the most".  All the other images that are secondarily selected still retain the keyword.  As for the keyword list panel, I'm not sure I tried it after selecting all the photos I want to delete the keyword, so I will certainly try that - thanks!

[John R Ellis]

Make sure the menu command Metadata > Show Metadata For Target Photo Only is unchecked.   When it is unchecked, deleting a keyword from the Keywording panel will remove it from all selected photos; when it is checked, the keyword will be removed from the most-selected photo only.

[DebS55]

Thank you John, I am trying it right now, after making sure that "Show Metadata for Target Photo Only" is unchecked, and unfortunately it is only removing the keyword for the most-selected photo.  I've struggled with this for such a long time....  

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

Triple check that you're using Grid view on the primary monitor. It won't work if it's Grid view on the secondary window or any other view mode.

[DebS55]

Thanks so much Dan!  That worked - I needed to go to grid view rather than use the filmstrip!  I have been struggling with this for so long.... but now I've got it.  Deeply appreciate it!

[alanterra]

"Champion" my ass, Victoria. You are a "Lightroom whisperer!" It's amazing the arcana that you know about this program. (No comment on why Lightroom has so many exceptions and inconsistencies!)

May I take this as an opportunity to plug your books? Anyone who is coming to this site for help could probably usefully start with a good couple of hours first reading them.

https://www.lightroomqueen.com

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

LOL Thanks Alan. It's easy when you know how. 😉

[DebS55]

Thanks Victoria!  Good to know!

[ianbutty]

I know this has been raised many times before, but Lightroom needs better keywording support.  As a professional photographer here's what we need.  There's TEN of them - one for each year we have been waiting for improvements.

1. We need an easy way to combe/merge keywords - yes it is possible at the moment but it is convoluted. 
   
2. We need to be able to cut and paste keywords in the keyword list hierarchy, dragging them around doesn't really work when you have 10,000+ keywords in your list (as I have)
3. For stock photographers, we need the ability to change the order of the keywords to put the most relevant keywords first on export.
4. We need the ability to prevent 'third party' images or images which haven't been exported with keywords in a hierarchy from creating new keywords in the wrong places on import.
5. We need the ability to filter on synonyms as well as master keywords.  Many a time, I have needlessly created a new keyword because I had forgotten the one I wanted was a synonym for a different keyword
6. Autocomplete should autocomplete on synonyms and then replace with the keyword it is a synonym for.  Again we can't always remember which is the 'master' and which is the synonym.
7. We need to be able to filter for keywords with spaces in the name if I want to filter for "Tower Bridge" I want to see just the "Tower Bridge" keyword not the keyword for every bridge and every tower that I have created.
8. Keyword sets should not be limited to 9 keywords each.  It makes no sense. Allowing those sets to be of variable length would make a huge improvement to speed in which we can keyword. 
9. We need the ability to work in a larger panel with larger fonts.  Managing keywords and metadata in a small side panel with tiny fonts is difficult on the eyes.  Many of us actually spend more time doing keywording and metadata than we do developing our images.
10. We need to be able to do keywording in on our mobile devices AND have it sync back to LR Classic.  It's just crazy that it's now available there but doesn't sync.  We should have our LR keyword list available to us on the mobile devices.  Some of us have spent years building up custom taxonomies to support our business.

Getting any one of these fixed would make a real difference to professional photographers round the world.  LR is 10 years old - some of us, myself included, were raising many of these keywording issues when we were beta testing LR version 1 and TEN YEARS later there has been no improvement.

I had really hoped that we could have seen at least some progress by this stage.  I am truely disappointed in Adobe on this one.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Hear, hear!!

[PaulFBarrett]

I gave up waiting and over a year ago I switched to Daminion for my Digital Asset Management and I haven't looked back.  I never use LR now.  Anything I can't do in Daminion I do in Photoshop Elements.  Adobe have done sweet f*** all in 10 years despite repeated request - the idea that they are going to listen now is frankly delusional. You can download a free copy of Daminion here and the paid for consumer versions here

Daminion's handling of keywords is superb, although they don't have mobile apps.  I use Daminion for metadata management and Synology Photo Station for photo display (Synology does have mobile apps.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I fully support all requests regarding optimizing keywording and keyword-management. There are a lot of usefull and smart requests and suggestions. Ian M Butterfield last one is very good.
A DAM is for me as an enthusiastic amateur with only 25000 pics nevertheless essential. A lot of (good) competitors are lacking of a good DAM or are to expensive. Or if they have a good DAM are lacking of other features or a convenient handling compared to LR.
I always come back to LR because I CAN FIND AND ORGANIZE MY IMAGES - still there is potential for improvement.

[Images of RMNP]

I have an extensive keyword list and I'm worried that Adobe may be putting its hopes in the Artificial Intelligence (AI) system they are developing for the new Lightroom CC. While I think that will be a helpful tool for finding many of our photos an AI system will never be able to apply all the very specific keywords that I need to track all of my photos. Will the AI be able to keyword the specific name of a little visited country bridge, will it be able to identify a particular trail in the forest, will it know that this photo is of my cousin or that this picture is a good metaphor for confusion?

AI can identify a lot of things, but it will always have limitations and so I really hope that Adobe will commit to improving the keywording system in LR Classic while also developing their AI cloud keyword solution.

One of my biggest gripes about the LR Classic keywording, apart from the overall clumsiness of applying specific keywords to each image, is the way that they get messed up, or rather orphans appear when you edit a photo in another application like PS and then bring it back into LR. In the next few weeks, I need to commit quite a bit of time to try and do my yearly cleanup of the LR Classic keywords. I'm not looking forward to it.  

Please give keywords some further attention Adobe! There are many of us here who rely on them! 

[ianbutty]

Erik,

I agree with you, as a stock photographer who has a particular interest in photographing ancient sites, when the AI system can correctly identify which Egyptian Pharoah is depicted in the statues I have photographed and tag them with the all the different spellings of the names and correct dynasty they belong to, then and only then will I start to take it seriously.  Until that time we NEED the tools to do it ourselves.  ARE YOU LISTENING ADOBE??

Ian.

[Images of RMNP]

That would be very helpful!!!

[KarlReed.OZ]

The responses have been very interesting.  my needs were much simpler. I'd like Boolean searches. Plus, default "and" for a list of keywords, i.e. if i have a list k1,k2,...,kn, then, a search is formed for k1^k2^...^kn. This means order is irrelevant and, one doesn't need to know what filed the ki are in. Works extremely well.
I'd also like wild character searches and regular expressions.
The funny thing about all the searches i use, is that NONE of them behave intelligently! I taught file design and database at a uni for a few years, and, it seems none of this has made it into the modern real world!
My main concern with loosing LR on a disc is that I have some 20,000 images which have some kind of LR processing. I don't want to spend the rest of my life reprocessing what I have already done!
Not good!

[ianbutty]

Karl,
If I need to do those kinds of boolean searches - I use a smart collection.  If you haven't found it yet try holding down the ALT key when clicking "+" button when adding a rule while editing a smart collection.!  😉  It allows you to create some very complex rules.  If it's a one-off search I prefix the smart collection name with "tmp" so I know I can just delete it later on.

20,000 images.... I wish that was my concern.  237,000 images in my catalog.  

[ianbutty]

I really didn't want this post buried 3 pages into a 7-year-old topic.  So not particularly happy that my thread has been merged into here.

In another attempt to get Adobe's eyes on this issue, I've converted my post into a blog post and open letter to Adobe - you can find it here:  https://www.ians-studio.co.uk/2017/10/an-open-letter-to-adobe-lightroom-keywording-ten-years-of-negl...

I'm trying to get as many people as possible to tweet or share the link on social media to try to get Adobe to pay attention.  If anyone feels they can share it or tweet it - please do so and tag Adobe, or Lightroom or any of the Lightroom Influencers/evangelists that you know.  Let's make some noise.... I'm not giving up on keywording in LR without a fight!

[PaulFBarrett]

16,000 images here.  I use Daminion to manage it.

[PaulFBarrett]

Does that just remove the keyword from the LR database or does remove it from the image's metadata too?

[shaugsburg]

I'll also second the ideas presented by Ian M Butterfield and Erik Stensland in their posts. Although I'm happy to see the few changes made in the Develop module this time around, I am more than disappointed that there were no major changes to the Library module.

The new "Adobe Sensei" sounded interesting until I read that the keywords would not sync with a Classic catalog. Huh!!?? How helpful is that? Sorry, Adobe, but my catalog is never going to live in your cloud!

When I think of the time I have invested in LR over the years it makes me kind of sick to think about looking for a new software tool, but that's what I'll be doing.

[ianbutty]

Paul, to ensure that the keyword is removed from the image as well, you need to either hit "CTL-S" (win) "CMD-S" (Mac, I think) to force an update to the the image's XMP.  Alternatively, you should have "automatically write XMP" set in the catalog settings, which will get LR to write the XMP.... well... automatically, without you having to press CTRL-S.

[ianbutty]

Just for the record, Adobe - my thread (https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/please-can-we-have-improved-keywording-suppor...) that was merged into this one is getting "upvotes" (it has gone up to 6 votes in the time this thread went up by 3).  Therefore votes from people who want improvements to keywording are not being reflected in the count on this thread... which I thought was the reason for merging - to combine the votes.   

So not only have you hidden my suggestions on page 3 of a 7-year-old thread (the digital equivalent of filing it “in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.” - to quote Douglas Adams). but the votes people are giving the suggestion are not being counted.

If anyone is interested I've been blogging about this and my post here has become the basis of an open letter to Adobe.  https://www.ians-studio.co.uk/2017/10/an-open-letter-to-adobe-lightroom-keywording-ten-years-of-negl...

[k64]

I have hundreds of Keywords arranged heirarchically (e.g. Places/Europe/UK/London/Greenwich ) but most of them have "Export Containing Keywords" selected.  I would very much like to untick this box on every Keyword.  To do this manually is totally impractical.

Can this be achieved by some sort of bulk edit?

Thanks in advance.