P: Bring back the ability of Enhance to run in the background. (LrC)

[adventure_photo]

I just updated to Lightroom Classic 14.4 and although I do like the fact that I can Denoise without creating a DNG file, I still would like the option to select a series of images and menu: Photo>Enhance... to let it create dngs in the background which enables me to work on other images while it;s doing those. Currently, in 14.4 it takes a long time, especially if I have multiple images that I am denoising and I cannot do anything elese while it's doing that process. Is there still a way possible to do it the old previous way of creating a DNG Denoised file? Seems like an oversight when implementing this new way and slows down my whole workflow.

[ppdix]

the bottom one seems a little sharper.

[C.Cella]

@DHW Photography 

First of all let me say I am a frustrated by the blocking of the entire UI.
I don't like it one byte, is terrible.

This said Denoise algorithm has not been changed, it has merely been "adapted" to run non destructively but it has not been revised.

By layering two Denoise (DNG and Non Destructive) in Photoshop and using "Difference" blend mode shows a totally black screen= no humanly visible difference.

This on a 25600 ISO image.

.

[DHW Photography]

I honestly don't care. It just seems like you're out to try and debunk people's issues with the new denoise method. If you don't have an issue with the new method then hurrah for you, but a lot of folk have been impacted by this change, and are angry, just let them voice their concerns without trying to tell them they're wrong.

[ppdix]

the bottom one seems a little sharper.

But I am "trying" to find a difference.

I think they are identical. I  couldn't see a difference in my work between the DNG and the new Denoise.

I usually go for around 80 on the slider. 

One thing I see before and now is that sometimes the shadows become green after denoise

[Incredible_Explorer0544]

@KrishnaMaithreya

So, let me summarize: You have been trading a potential, temporary performance issue for an actual, permanent performance issue due to an absurdly bloated catalog, PLUS a disrupted work flow for many professional photographers...

Honestly, this is beyond my humble understanding. Anyway, let users decide for themselves and make the old, destructive process available optionally in the preferences. And take your users seriously and do something! And do it quick... 

[ppdix]

@KrishnaMaithreya I understand the GPU-intensive issue. I used to get the fans running when I performed the denoise with the DNG. But then again, it does one at a time. Not together. So what's the difference? If i choose 10 images to denoise, they will start appearing on the fly as they are ready. One by one. Now, if i copy and paste the denoise settings, its' the same. One by one... So what gives?

Also about reflection removal and people removal? They shoud be on a consumer version of bridge or Photoshop Elements.

If you are a professional photographer, and I assume people that need Lightroom and Photoshop make a living doing this, are not going to have the need to remove reflections from a window or people on a turist location.

Not to offend anyone, but at least it's my case...

I think time and effort should be invested into improving workflows for pros.

AI denoise is one of the most amaazing features ever added to LR. Please just let us have a toggle to use it in the background. Some of us have fast computers with GPU's that can handle that and more.

Cheers

[ppdix]

I like the new non-destructive feature. It IS better. But just let it run in the background.

That's all.

[michelleg7073996]

Doing denoise first (if that is indeed the suggestion from Adobe) seems counter intuitive based on the new workflow.

First, i have to denoise (at 50% with no choice of my own).  Then, I have to change the % to what I really want.  Then, if I do any masking/editing, etc to the image after, I have to do that AI Update button again after each change.  How is this better?

Making the exposure/other edits first is how I determine if I even like the photo enough to use it (and even bother with denoise).  I swear it is like the engineers didn't consider the users.   The ONLY thing I like about the new version, is that it can maintain the file # in the name of the file so I can keep it organized.  But honestly, even with the DNG thing, I don't understand how that info couldn't have been maintained in some fashion.

[JamesRHogg]

I think there may be a solution I noticed

[C.Cella]

Am I the only one here that would be perfectly ok with the option to "block the user from doing other Edit operations on the same photo, until the Enhance step is done."  ?

I believe nobody here wants to apply Ai in a batch and before the process is even fished, before even seeing the result, do more edits on those same images.

I believe we only want to be free. 
We want to be able to do our batch AI (doesn't have to be Denoise,  could be just less computationally expensive Ai Masking or Adaptive Profile) and until the images are ready still be able to something else NOT in conflict with the Ai process running on those images.

.

[JamesRHogg]

I think there may be a solution

I find that I can use LrC while ARC is actively working on batch processing.

We could use ARC for time consuming AI processes and simultaneously work on LrC on other files.

If you do any AI you can select the stop button and non AI features will be displayed. The edit status button will go yellow

When you have a batch of pics needing AI status update load the batch into ARC and start batch processing with edit status update.  I did this by doing the first pic and pasting the edits to the rest of the batch but I bet there’s a cleverer way. Get back to working on LrC deferring slow AI till the next ARC batch.

After ARC batch use “synchronise folder” to bring pictures up in LrC if they haven’t already appeared

I think it should be possible to write an export protocol so that pictures can be easily sent from LrC to ARC  but I dragged RAW files from grid and dropped them on the Photoshop icon on my MacBook M4.

If Adobe feel this could be a workable solution, I imagine they would be able to make the whole process much slicker without too much difficulty.

I hope this works for everyone’s sake

Good Luck

James Hogg

[DdeGannes]

@JamesRHogg , I believe you are referring to Adobe Camera Raw application i.e. ACR not ARC?

Are you suggesting applying Denoise in ACR prior to import to LrC?

[C.Cella]

@JamesRHogg see my post here: https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-bring-back-the-ability-of-enhance-to-run-in...

Anyone can do batch Ai externally.

LrC and ACR or LrD will be fighting for resources, uselss acr. files or bloated XMP will be created,.etc...

It can be done but is a terrible workaround.

.Just to give youn an idea of how bad it can get.

1. Batch Denoise in ACR

2. acr. files will be created.

3. whe you read metadata in LrC a duplicate of that file will be created in the lrcat-data

If by any chance you save into XMP the data will be in 4 different places.

.acr, XMP (25% bigger) , lrcat-data, lrcat (copy of xmp)

I have written a code to get rid of .acr

So at least I can somehow cope with this horrible workflow.

.

[JamesRHogg]

Thanks
I always think of Adobe Raw converter my mistake
I suggest moving batches to ACR whenever there is a lengthy process Denoise or other AI. The other AIs allow you to stop them and defer edit status till you need to see the result

At least you can use LrC while the AI/denoise is working

Adobe could develop a sliker way to transfer files between the two apps
You might transfer a file more than once maybe in different batches
Sent from my iPhone
James Hogg

[drtonyb]

@michelleg7073996 

"Doing denoise first (if that is indeed the suggestion from Adobe)"

See here:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-recommended-order-of-edits-lr-amp-cr/... 

"First, i have to denoise (at 50% with no choice of my own). Then, I have to change the % to what I really want. Then, if I do any masking/editing, etc to the image after, I have to do that AI Update button again after each change."

Having to do the AI Update after each change is incorrect if the order of edits is followed.

[michelleg7073996]

@drtonyb 

I am guessing my problem is i do very little editing with my photos.  I crop, I masks subject to sharpen/texture a touch, I usually do a very faint radial mask to highlight my wildlife subject, and then I tweak any exposure or white balance if necessary.  then I denoise.  When I denoise first, and then do any masking last, each masking step requires that AI update button again. When I mask first, I only have to hit that update button one time as first hitting denoise (at 50%), then fixing the %, then hitting the Update button.  EVERY.TIME.

[ppdix]

That's what I do. For example, I take 300 photos. then narrow the selection to about 50-60. Then 25 then maybe 10-15 which I will edit. As soon as I have my picks, I immediately delete the files so I won't forget and so they won't take up disk space...

I usually do an auto-everything for light and color and so on to make a smaller selection. Once I have the 10-15, then I denoise and fine tune the light and color. Then I always finish editing the images in Photoshop in 16-bits. I only use LR for organization and RAW editing. 

[DdeGannes]

@JamesRHogg , LrC and ACR are two applications created by Adobe and they both provide the option to process RAW image files from digital cameras. They both utilize the same processing engine , LrC has the ACR engine built in to the Application.

When you are working with Bridge / ACR the processing data is stored in a XMP sidecar file for original raw files from digital cameras or in the file header for tiff, DNG and JPEG images. As far as ACR is concerned the info is in the file. ACR cannot read info from the LrC Catalog.

When you are working with LrC the info from the Images and the changes you make is stored in the Catalog. LrC will read info from the file XMP or file header at import or if you use the manual option to read metadata from the file. There is an option to write metadata to XMP from LrC, however read from the file is only available manually.

While working in LrC it is only reading and writing to the Catalog file and support data files for the Catalog.

With the advent to the AI options including Denoise there is a large amount of data that has to be stored with the file or with the LrC Catalog, the LrC AI data is stored in a data file alongside the Catalog file.

Using both applications the data storage is doubled.

[JamesRHogg]

Thanks
Using ACR and LrC I still only have one file and one XMP on disk whether the XMP is bigger, I doubt, but it’s not a big file compared to the RAW file. I have plenty of external storage, but I’ll buy more if I need

As a somewhat simplified system, I will probably routinely use ACR to do

HDR as I have a 1600 nit screen
Denoise
Then adaptive colour

As a batch when I start an editing session. The first two or three pictures I will do in LRC but I can use LRC as much as I want while ACR does the heavy work maybe in two or three batches?

I load all my virgin pictures into LRC. In grid select my first batch for ACR and drag them onto the icon for Photoshop which I have set to open in ACR. I’m careful not to add any AI features or Denoise to the import preset

In grid I expect to see the little icon on each picture telling me that the picture has been edited in two places but I will respond to this appropriately

If that particular picture shoot requires other AI features for instance lens blur I will add those features to ACR’s workload which should be completed before I do any editing in LRC
Sent from my iPhone
James Hogg

[JamesRHogg]

When you apply an AI, you are given an option to stop re-ordering the edit status.

Do that but when you have applied all your AI features update the yellow edit status button.

In the meantime you will see the picture with all non-AI edits
Sent from my iPhone
James Hogg

[C.Cella]

@michelleg7073996 if you do Enhance first and then Masking you should not need to do "Update Ai Settings".

Masking is the last of the Ai Edits in order.

So if LrC is asking for an update then you have a bug.

[C.Cella]

@JamesRHogg

No you don't have only one file and one XMP if you do AI in ACR.

ACR when "Exporting to XMP", unlike LrC, saves the image data in a .acr sidecar.

So with proprietary RAW you always end with 3 files.

The RAW, XMP, .acr

• When in LrC you read metadata LrC reads the .acr and duplicates it the lrcat-data

Cancelling the Update of Ai settings is a bad idea.

We end up with missing Ai data.

Adobe has never allowed (despite my numerous requests I might add) to let us find these files using LrC filters or Smart Collections.

So cancelling Update Ai Settings in LrC is bad for users.

Any Filter Plug-in by @johnrellis is the best way avaialbe to find images with missing Ai: https://johnrellis.com/lightroom/anyfilter.htm

[michelleg7073996]

@C.Cella 

The order of edits doesn't match my flow.  Denoising and its overhead is not what I want to do first while determining if the photo is actually a keeper.  I tend to crop and edit and cull all of my photos, and leave the best of the best and then denoise at the end.  I don't have time to denoise everything first before I have made final decisions of my favorites. Especially since I can not do anything while I wait for each photo.

[C.Cella]

@michelleg7073996 you said.

"First, i have to denoise (at 50% with no choice of my own).  Then, I have to change the % to what I really want.  Then, if I do any masking/editing, etc to the image after, I have to do that AI Update button again after each change."

If you do Denoise first and Masking and a Remove after there is NO need to update Ai...so is not as you said.

If you do Denoise after Masking and Remove (which is a legitimate workflow) then you need to update Ai.

•Fwiw, I do SuperRes at the end not at the beginning for performance reasons.

.

[michelleg7073996]

@C.Cella 

You aren't understanding.  The denoise process is slow and arduous and prevents anything from happening while I wait.  My process has always been to fully edit and make final decisions on all of my photos before I choose the best of the best to denoise.  I am not going to denoise the photos as a general rule before I edit them.  If I have a set I am confident will be keepers, I can follow that process.  But the way it works now, I will not do that as a general rule.  It overworks my computer for nothing.  It bloats my catalog for nothing and it prevents me from doing anything else until it is done.  It worked just fine in 13.4 and my process was fine.