P: Bring back the ability of Enhance to run in the background. (LrC)

[adventure_photo]

I just updated to Lightroom Classic 14.4 and although I do like the fact that I can Denoise without creating a DNG file, I still would like the option to select a series of images and menu: Photo>Enhance... to let it create dngs in the background which enables me to work on other images while it;s doing those. Currently, in 14.4 it takes a long time, especially if I have multiple images that I am denoising and I cannot do anything elese while it's doing that process. Is there still a way possible to do it the old previous way of creating a DNG Denoised file? Seems like an oversight when implementing this new way and slows down my whole workflow.

[DHW Photography]

Well I think it's now clear that Adobe wants to go down this route with the denoising method, all it's users be damned. I've mentioned before it's not just the lack of background processing that has damaged people's workflows, it's the whole change of method. I've spent years honing use of smart collections in my workflow and this change breaks all of that. So far I've yet to find a suitable solution as the criteria for building a smart collection isn't specific enough, so I'll be sticking to 14.3 until my subscription is up for renewal later in the year. 

[drtonyb]

@DHW Photography 

How has your Smart Collections been broken by the new Denoise?

[ronb2]

@drtonyb its not that every image needs to be denoised, but often we do batch edits and all selects from this scene/set will get edited, then start the denoise process while you move on to the next scene to do batch edits, rinse and repeat. Can't do that if LR has your UI on lockdown.

Afterwards, you do further edits on a hero image or two from each set to refine it specifically.

[Lars M�rch]

If it's just 5 pictures from a shoot that needs denoising, it's so much nicer to have that done in the background, so one can continue working on those that do not need this. Having to wait for each one by one makes the workflow so much longer.

[JamesRHogg]

I find this very helpful and you do get to see the effects of the non-AI features which are pasted. I would like to be able to tell light room to reorder all the files that I have done in a session as a back process when I finish that session it doesn't seem to be an option. A batch process. Could it be added?

[ppdix]

I am using a workaround. Apply the denoise to one image. Then copy ONLY the
denoise adjustment and then select as.many images as you want and paste.
Done

[Lars M�rch]

But still blocking everything else

[owen-b]

Previous LRC Denoise would show you a preview of the slider position, then when you confirmed it would run in the background and you could get on with other stuff in LRC, whether that was catalog tidying or culling or even other edits. As an event and wedding photographer this was amazing - I'd do my edits, select the ones that need cleaning up, start the Denoise then get on with some other stuff in LRC. 

Now it doesn't show a preview, and it renders LRC completely unusable until it's finished. These are both bad user experiences but the latter is an AWFUL choice. 

Now when you start Denoise on a batch on images I have to watch the progess indicator work its way through and the entire interface is locked up. Can't even go to the Lightroom menu to check what version I have for this post, because it's halfway through a 150-photo Denoise session. 

Truly, honestly, an awful choice for professional event and wedding photographers who will use this in batch mode almost exclusively. Yes, I can go and do something else entirely but it's extending my workflow by hours where the previous version didn't.

I'm not rolling back, it sounds like too much hassle, but I sincerely hope this new version is changed back to how it used to work.

[owen-b]

@drtonyb Event photographer here. In dark venues t's not unusual for my entire set of 150+ edited photos to have been shot in, say, ISO 6400 - 12800. Even if the whole set isn't like that, for events at night a significant number of them will be. The new version of this feature is utterly unsuitable for a professional workflow, it's mindblowing that they okayed this. 

[drtonyb]

@owen-b 

Thank you for the insights into your professional workflow.

I do agree that Adobe has failed to appreciate the impact this change has had on batch processing as expressed by many others here. It is disappointing that nothing has been done to address the problem. At the very least, the previous DNG method could have been reinstated as an option. The worst of it is that Adobe is silent on the matter. There is no indication that the current situation will ever change and I fear that could do some serious damage to the Adobe brand.

[ppdix]

I've had experiences in the past when bugs or problems didn't get fixed for
the months.
These forums are supposed to be the voice of us users.
We are the ones that use the software every day.
We are mostly professionals relying on stuff to work to help US work
better...
I hope adore is reading this and give us a solution

[drtonyb]

@ronb2 

Thank you for your comments on a professional's workflow. I do agree that locking up the UI during time-consuming processes like batch Denoise is a real problem that needs to be resolved. The workflow you have outlined is to batch edit first, then denoise. This is counter to the recommendations from Adobe that Denoise should be done first to avoid or limit AI Settings Update requests. Adobe needs to do something to fix this situation.

[ronb2]

@drtonyb There's zero reason to waste compute or storage by denoising first. You may edit multiple variations of similar images and only see which is the best deliverable after basic edits are completed. As we're clearly seeing from this thread, Adobe knows very little about actual workflows. 

[ExUSA]

Different people have different workflows. I'm a product photographer and I use pretty much every photo I take, and every one gets denoised. In my workflow there aren't any missed shots to cull out and I don't have to worry about finding the hero pic.

Computing has strongly skewed toward asynchronous operations as hardware has gotten more powerful. Synchromous, modal processing that locked up the UI would have been tolerated 30 years ago but is ridiculous today.

[ppdix]

I use a Mac book pro M4 Max with 48GB of RAM. The demoise is quick because of the processor but depending on the image it takes 5-10 seconds each. 
I denoise every picked photo I choose to edit. I usually edit only about 10-15 pictures per session but no matter the iso, even at iso 50 and outdoors, I use denoise. Somehow, it provides more detail to the image.

Although few images are not a problem to have to wait a few seconds, I still find it annoying that it won't work in the background.

My computer, and most of the newer computers, could easily handle the denoise processing in the back without slowing you down. There is no speed increase between the old and the new denoise processing, so, why remove it? 

[KrishnaMaithreya]

Sharing a reply from our engineering team for reference –

"There are two major reasons for moving the experience to a UI-blocking one.

First, Enhance models (esp. Denoise) are very GPU-intensive. And increasingly, features that we've been introducing over the past year, such as Lens Blur, plus the new features that we've added to the June release (Reflection Removal, Distracting People Removal) are also very GPU-intensive. They all require running ML models, and these models are not designed to be run concurrently. Running Denoise in the background while trying to run Reflection Removal (or some other "heavy" ML model, take your pick) in the foreground is very likely to destabilize the machine, especially on Windows, which does not offer GPU/ML model memory protection. When we first introduced Denoise in early 2023, it was by far the most GPU-intensive ML model we had, but there weren't many other models that would "compete" with it. That's not true anymore.

Second, now that Enhance (including Denoise) is non-destructive, it means it's being applied to the current photo, just like any other Edit feature, not a derived, yet to be created photo. If this step is moved to the background (to be non-blocking), then we will need to block the user from doing other Edit operations on the same photo, until the Enhance step is done. For example, it makes no sense to allow the user to perform a Remove operation on the current photo while it's being Denoised in the background, because the Remove step will depend on the Denoised result (which is in-progress, right?). So, blocking the user from editing the photo until Enhance is done would need to built-out as a user experience, with all of the complexities and edge cases that it implies. Confusing and not considered worth the effort.

Yes, prior to June release, it was possible to run Denoise in background while running other ML models in the foreground.  Then again, prior to June, we didn't have features like Reflection Removal and Distracting People Removal.  Increasingly, the vast majority of our Edit features are running ML models, and many of these models are currently designed assuming they can take over the entire GPU (since they will be the only thing running)."

[ExUSA]

This is a solved problem. Databases use record locking and all the developers need to do is lock those photos (maybe put an "in-progress" badge on them?) And they could also lock out other AI/ML features if its that much of a performance hit.

This explanation doesn't address the many other problems:

removal of the dng option

removal of the pre-application amount setting

inability to schedule denoise for later calculation

multiple bugs, many of which I have reported

Unfortunately, it seems like UI and workflow design are just not priorities on the Lightroom Classic development and product management teams. Please, PLEASE stop making your priducts worse when you change features.

[ronb2]

@KrishnaMaithreya this sounds like an engineering issue that was entirely Adobe's fault, whether by laziness or poor assumptions made by the product team. As highlighted by @ExUSA this also fails to address other concerns that this broken process causes like the inability to determine where this additional data is stored, the removal of the original DNG process, etc.

As a software engineer myself I understand that this is not an easy fix but saying that it's not worth the effort to fix is a really bad move. Surely there's a bunch of things in PS that are clunky legacy items, but you maintain them because people's workflows and processes require them right? It's the same here, except you don't show the same respect for the LR users.

[michelleg7073996]

100% upvote to this reply. There is no excuse to make us sit through a 50% computation when we only ever want a diff %. There is no reason to lock every single aspect of LR, cluding just scrolling through the filmstrip oinr changing photo context or..other non invasive/destructive/edit scenarios.





Sent from my Galaxy

[ronb2]

Increasingly, the vast majority of our Edit features are running ML models, and many of these models are currently designed assuming they can take over the entire GPU (since they will be the only thing running)."

By @KrishnaMaithreya 

I reread this comment and this part stuck out to me -- this is a terrible assumption to make. If this is the resource usage that is being assumed for current and future features you need to go back to the drawing board. You can't just blithely lock up the users' program when they use every feature. Is clicking "Auto" going to take 5-10 seconds in the future as AI adjusts the exposure sliders?

[Peter_Weimann7679]

That sounds all logical, but what have you done differently on the qualitiy of the denoised photo? With 14.3.1 I get a wonderful denoised, sharp image with fine details that looks like a 100 Iso shot but is a 20000 Iso shot. Now I get a mushy, unsharp shot with lots of detail missing. It looks as if there has nothing happened. If you can show me the settings to get the equal quality  as with the dng version (and this is for me a One Click action), then please feel free to show it to me. I am more than unhappy with the crappy output of the new process and rolled back to 14.3.1 and it seems I sadly have to stay there for a long time. The 14.5 update seems did nothing to that problem. How long do I need to wait to get back a working high quality Denoise and the other new features in ONE Version? If I have to keep the old version just for this reason it seems there are other Denoise programs with less issues.

[michelleg7073996]

Agreed again. Another upvote to this comment. As a previous coder and current product manager, it seems that the whole gathering and analyzing of requirements for this latest change was skipped. Poor execution all the way around. Did anyone even ask users how these changes may impact their workflows?

I do like not having to rename my files due to lost file number extensions. But other than that....this update has been a disaster. I also think the denoise algorithm changed because i prefer the old results. This version seems over processed and i lose some detail.



Sent from my Galaxy

[drtonyb]

Two versions of a Nikon NEF file shot at ISO 64, the same processing edits except for denoise, a cropped area of 1200 x 800 pixels. One is the former Enhanced-NR DNG, the other is the new non-destructive Denoise.

Which is which and how can you tell?

[DHW Photography]

So you're giving us a denoise example of a photo shot at ISO 64? Keep up the good work! 

[drtonyb]

@DHW Photography 

@ppdix wrote "I denoise every picked photo I choose to edit. I usually edit only about 10-15 pictures per session but no matter the iso, even at iso 50 and outdoors, I use denoise. Somehow, it provides more detail to the image."

So here is the same deal, but shot at 16000 ISO.

Which is which?