P: Reduce magnification in Enhance Preview window

[davep60]

Hi,

The new denoise feature in LR 12.3 is great - much better than the old sliders - but...

Does anyone else find the magnification on the preview window too high? The most important thing when assessing what strength of denoise to apply is the impact it's having on image sharpness. And you can't see that properly with the preview at greater than 100%. The only options seem to be the whole image or a section of it at what looks like somewhere between 200 and 300% with no ability to select any magnification anywhere in between. Unless you can and I haven't figured out how. If we can only have one magnification level in the preview window it should be 100%.

[D Fosse]

You're right, and it does seem strange. It's not even a hard ratio, but somewhere around 250%.

What could possibly be the justification for this? And more to the point - how is this resampling actually done?

[GoldingD]

Not at a computer to check, but looking at images in:

https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2023/04/18/denoise-demystified

In the preview window, bottom right corner, a minus magnifying glass, what does that do? And does it stick?

[D Fosse]

The magnifying glass just goes to full image. You can see in the first screenshot that it's around 250%. Main image is at 100:

How can I trust 250% zoom?

[TheDigitalDog]

And more to the point - how is this resampling actually done?

Resampling zooming past 1:1? I'm not certain there is any. Zooming out from 1:1 yes but that's not an option. 

As to the minus zoom, it is a "fill screen" so to speak, so one can click on an area to get the actual zoom which yes, is well past 1:1. It's not super discoverable I'll give you that. 

This entire dialog needs a bit of love but for an initial release, it seems fine to get the job done. 

[D Fosse]

But why 250? Why not 200, or even 300?

[TheDigitalDog]

No idea why 250 but I'll ask. 

[TheDigitalDog]

But why 250? Why not 200, or even 300?

Engineering told me that the preview in the Enhance dialog is zoomed in to highlight the difference b/w Enhanced and Not-Enhanced previews. This difference may not be generally seen at 100%; Adobe decided to zoom in on the preview a few years back. The zoom level was set to 250% in Lightroom Classic to show the same focus area in Enhance dialog as other apps ( LrD/ACR ).

They are aware that other zoom ratios are desired, though the best way to get this more attention is to upvote the feature request here. There is, as of now, ONE upvote (mine).

[MH90]

Added my upvote to the OP, it's difficult to tell what's luminance noise or just pixellation at that magnification.

With a bit of maturity, I can see this easily replacing my current workflow of starting with DxO PhotoLab for denoising and lens correction before finishing my edits in LR. Especially once the requirement to make a DNG is no longer necessary as is planned. Definitely looking forward to all these simplifications coming to fruition!

[David297586606iyu]

I can find no mention of the magnification amount Adobe are using in the preview detail panel when using Denoise AI but I do know it is well over 100%. It's more like 250% or 300%! This makes it hard for me to estimate how much to move the percentage slider as I have no interest in removing noise that can only be seen when viewing at this very high magnification. I want to be able to analyse the noise when viewing at 100%. As far as I can make out this is impossible. The zoom symbol on the window goes from fitting the whole image within the constraints of the preview window to 250/300% zoom and nothing in between. This is far from satisfactory for how I (and I would imagine most other people) judge image quality, noise etc. Of course, I can understand if some people feel it is necessary assess noise at higher magnifications than 100% but let's please have the option of the starting point in the detail window being at 100%. This is normal for all other denoising software I have used. As it stands the preview window is pretty much useless to me. 

[TheDigitalDog]

Zoom level was set to 250% in LrC so that it show the same focus area in Enhance dialog as other apps ( LrD/ACR ).

[Ian Lyons]

This has already been raised by others in https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-reduce-magnification-in-enhance-preview-win...

I recommend that you add your upvote to above thread as doing so is the best way of ensuring that Adobe get the message that not all customers agree with their choice for the Enhanced window zoom level.

Note that this thread will likely be merged with above for easier reference and management.

[David297586606iyu]

Thank you for that. I did do a search to see if anybody else was complaining but nothing came up.

Merge my post by all means. I will add my upvote.

David

Sent from Mail<> for Windows

[reinah34418365]

I silently wish for variable zoom levels.

[Per Berntsen]

I use a 24" 1920 x 1200 monitor, and always view at 100%  to assess sharpness, noise and other image detail.

The 250% preview is just confusing, and tells me very little. So I have to use trial and error to find the best amount setting, which is annoying, and time consuming when the process takes 3 minutes.

Another issue that adds to the confusion is that the Before preview does not include manual color noise reduction, which is set to 25 by default. So the Before preview should include manual color noise settings.

But it makes you wonder if Denoise is even aware of the manual color noise setting when doing the processing.

For my monitor, 100% is perfect for examining image detail, but for high resolution monitors, 200% is needed.

So maybe options for 100, 150, 200, and 250%. 100 and 200 at the very least.

[Ian Lyons]

> Another issue that adds to the confusion is that the Before preview does not include manual color noise reduction, which is set to 25 by default. So the Before preview should include manual color noise settings.

Any noise (Luminance or Colour) settings that you may have previously applied via the sliders are ignored. Therefore, it doesn't make any difference whether they're set to 0, 25 or  even 100, Denoise just treats them as 0.

[davep60]

Lightroom 13 now out and disappointed to see that the enhance preview window is still at the completely unusable 250% magnification. It's absolutely impossible to assess what either the denoise or the super resolution are doing to image sharpness at that magnification. I don't even bother waiting for the preview to load before clicking the Enhance button. I realise that there's time and effort involved in developing a user scaleable preview but surely switching it to a useful 100% from the ridiculous 250% would be a matter of seconds to implement?

[jamesk53627517]

I see there have been many requests for a 100% magnification level in the Denoise preview window.  Has Adobe ever addressed this?   Like many others, I find that the artifacts created at the (apparent) 250%-300% default "choice" make the preview almost useless.  Is there some technical issue that actually prevents this from being implemented?  

LR Classic 13.1, Windows 10 Pro

[dj_paige]

Yes, it has been discussed. https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-reduce-magnification-in-enhance-preview-win... Yes, reasons are provided.

[jamesk53627517]

Yes I read that but the only reason I see is what Andrew posted about the "need" to match ACR, etc.  On the face of it, I don't understand that to mean it would be technically impossible to give users the choice to do something different within LR.

[John R Ellis]

If Adobe (or anyone else) cares to post authoritative information, it will appear in that Idea thread. Adobe infrequently comments on Idea posts (but sometimes they do).

[John R Ellis]

Moderators, @Rikk Flohr: Photography, please merge with the existing Idea:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-reduce-magnification-in-enhance-preview-win...

[dj_paige]

Yes I read that but the only reason I see is what Andrew posted about the "need" to match ACR, etc.  On the face of it, I don't understand that to mean it would be technically impossible to give users the choice to do something different within LR.

By @jamesk53627517

That's a reason. You don't have to like it, but that's a reason to do this.

Just because something is technically possible to do (which certainly this is), that does not mean Adobe is going to do it. Again, you don't have to agree, you don't have to like it, but that's what Adobe is thinking. (And maybe this is indeed on their "To Do" list and we'll see it in a few months ... who knows)

[jamesk53627517]

Right, so we're agreed this isn't really a technical problem. The question
is, what's the tipping point for Adobe and how do we/they get there? There
are obviously many people out there who have desired the 100% preview since
Denoise was introduced, but there's been no indication that anyone at Adobe
is even listening.

[John R Ellis]

Adobe does read all the posts in the Ideas section, and they do influence future product development.  The more upvotes on an Idea, the more likely they'll pay attention (though votes are far from the only factor in their decision making).  This idea currently has 19 votes, but a fair number (probably at least 5 - 10) are from marauding bots that are flooding this forum with bogus votes.  So 10 - 15 real votes is more than most posts here get, but it isn't a huge number, compared to other ideas here (which have or have not been implemented).

[dj_paige]

@jamesk53627517says:

but there's been no indication that anyone at Adobe is even listening.

There's evidence right here in this thread. @TheDigitalDog said he talked to Adobe and "They are aware that other zoom ratios are desired".