RGB Parade and Vectorscope in Lightroom?

Community Beginner ,
Nov 10, 2015

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Hi
I do a lot of video editing and really like using the RGB Parade and Vectorscope.

Histogram for photos aren't as detailed. Is there any plugins or features that have similar functions like RGB Parade and Vectorscope for use inside Lightroom or maybe as an external editor?

Best regards Simon

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RGB Parade and Vectorscope in Lightroom?

Community Beginner ,
Nov 10, 2015

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Hi
I do a lot of video editing and really like using the RGB Parade and Vectorscope.

Histogram for photos aren't as detailed. Is there any plugins or features that have similar functions like RGB Parade and Vectorscope for use inside Lightroom or maybe as an external editor?

Best regards Simon

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Nov 10, 2015 0
Adobe Employee ,
Nov 10, 2015

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Hi Simqplicious,

Greetings.

You can use Premier Pro for that, check this link

Regards

Rohit

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Nov 10, 2015 1
Community Beginner ,
Nov 10, 2015

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‌Thanks but that's really a workaround. shouldn't there at least be one plugin in the world that does this ?

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Nov 10, 2015 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 03, 2016

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Thanks but that's really a workaround. shouldn't there at least be one plugin in the world that does this ?

No, it doesn't exist. This has not been something that people do in the stills world at all. My guess is that it will become more common but currently I don't think anybody has thought about this. Also note that you can't really write a plugin that easily embeds into the Lightroom interface so that route wouldn't really work. You can make a window popup but there is no way to have some dynamically updated window such as a scope you would use in color grading video so you could immediately see the results of your slider changes. So Adobe would have to supply something like this. Therefore what I would recommend is to submit this as a feature request on http://feedback.photoshop.com . Many features requested there get implemented over time.

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Oct 03, 2016 1
Engaged ,
Oct 04, 2016

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Your comment about stills is not entirely accurate. Also, Adobe is aware of this need as they have introduced the ability to create LUT's and perform grading with Photoshop. So having Vector Scopes as a tools would be a great addition. Maybe a challenge to implement within Lightroom, but should be doable in Photoshop.

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Oct 04, 2016 0
Explorer ,
Aug 15, 2017

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Hi,

may I ask then how do professional photo editors manage tasks like obtaining "true" skin color values and saturation control without vectorscope?
Also, I would love to see Waveform monitor in Lightroom, as regular histogram isn't accurate enough for me.

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Aug 15, 2017 3
Most Valuable Participant ,
Aug 15, 2017

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Also, I would love to see Waveform monitor in Lightroom, as regular histogram isn't accurate enough for me.

Please add details of why you want this feature and your me-too vote to this feature request in the official Adobe feedback forum: Lightroom: Add vertically aligned Parade Scopes to be able to locate under & overexposure | Photosho... (This forum is primarily user-to-user and Adobe product developers are rarely seen here.)

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Aug 15, 2017 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 16, 2017

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"may I ask then how do professional photo editors manage tasks like obtaining "true" skin color values and saturation control without vectorscope?"

They use their eyes?

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Aug 16, 2017 1
Explorer ,
Aug 17, 2017

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Based on what, their monitor? If they use three monitors, do they "eyeball" using the left one, middle or right? Or the one that's the brightest? How old are they? Or maybe they just like LG the most to color grade, because it nicely crushes the blacks... is it sunny outside or a sunset? They work at night maybe, or don't have windows? If so, what color temperature is their artificial light?

I could go on... you realize all of the above have signifiacant influence of how you perceive the colors? That is why in my professional work I always use scopes. And also that is why I find amusing that photography professionals just eyeball all of it.

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Aug 17, 2017 5
Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 17, 2017

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Yes, I do know plenty and I'm telling you as it is. Some who make their living from photography (ie "professionals") do apply more sophisticated techniques and hardware like daylight balanced viewing boxes, but photography and video are different. Individual images versus sequences, points in time/light rather than ever-changing scenes that need to be joined and matched? Typically, some photographers carry a colour chart on location and use it for colour matching, many calibrate their monitor(s), and a few obtain more accurate paper profiles than those supplied by paper manufacturers. You do get some who insist they must use CMYK values (again, print-oriented) as a recipe for skin tones, though that's not something many Lightroom users would do. They do use their eyes.

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Aug 17, 2017 0
Explorer ,
Aug 17, 2017

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That's a comprehensive answer I expected - thanks!

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Aug 17, 2017 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 17, 2017

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Sorry if I was a bit flippant!

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Aug 17, 2017 0
Community Beginner ,
Nov 25, 2017

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"may I ask then how do professional photo editors manage tasks like obtaining "true" skin color values and saturation control without vectorscope?"

They use their eyes?

Haha, sure, I'm color blind !


I would love a vectorscope in Photoshop/Lightroom. I use it all the time on premiere and After Effects

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Nov 25, 2017 4
Most Valuable Participant ,
Nov 25, 2017

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Be sure to add your detailed opinion of why you want this (how you use it) and click Me Too on the feature request: Lightroom: Add vertically aligned Parade Scopes to be able to locate under & overexposure | Photosho...

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Nov 25, 2017 0
New Here ,
Mar 03, 2020

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Many PROFESSIONAL photographers edit their images on any monitor they have avalible. Unlike your eyes, John, many monitors are not perfectly calibrated for color.
A vector scope and RGB parade shows you more detailed information about your image then a histogram ever could allowing a professional to edit the colors of an image with more precision reguardless of their improperly calibrated monitor or inferior eyes. It doesnt matter if the image is supposed to be viewed in a sequence(@ 24fps) or by itself. 

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Mar 03, 2020 0
Participant ,
Oct 08, 2020

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There are quite a few reasons using "their eyes" is not as good an idea as using vector parade and vectorscopes. And it's definitely one of those things that you don't think you need until you use it. And since most photographers haven't ever had access to it, they may prefer just using their eyes for a while.

But your monitor color does shift over time. So you have to calibrate every couple weeks? And unless you lock yourself in a dark room, then time of day effects how your monitor appears. 

And yeah, still use your eyes. For sure. But start with a scope. It'd be like saying....no no, don't use a histogram to see if your image is properly exposed when you take a picture. Just use your eyes. But if your digital camera's screen is a bit off, you may be unintentionally clamping your shots, losing out on a bunch more detail that you could use. Looking at my camera screen, then comparing to a nicer monitor attached, I see more detail and color information in the monitor. Both histograms tell me the exact same information.

The same goes for the other tools as well. You can quickly nail skin tones, adjust white balance using different techniques, and adjust values and contrast, knowing what the image is going to look like without ever even looking at the image once you get practice at it. 

Eyes have their place, but so do visual graphs. 

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Oct 08, 2020 1
Participant ,
Jan 01, 2018

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For stills photogs that need accurate flesh tones, the answer is simple.

They DON’T trust their eyes any more than movie colorists do.  It’s more trust but verify.

So still photographers either use something like a Color Checker and create a custom profile, or they use this technique as explained so deftly by color genius Lee Varis: http://varis.com/2014/04/22/color-correction-4-skin/

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Jan 01, 2018 0
Community Beginner ,
Jul 22, 2020

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It's an old thread, but just wanted to leave this link here: 

 

Nobe OmniScope - scope solution that will work with Lightroom (and other photo editing software). It's using screen capture to monitor the source image in realtime.

Open BETA has launched - more info here:
https://timeinpixels.com/nobe-omniscope-beta/

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Jul 22, 2020 1
Community Beginner ,
Jul 24, 2020

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I'm also in need of a more informative scope than just a histogram. Can't believe adobe hasn't implemented this yet. Seems like it 100% possible because they already have it in PP. I signed up for Nobe instantly! FFS adobe improve your software based on your customer whishes!

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Jul 24, 2020 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 24, 2020

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Lightroom is application for editing pictures and not really for videos. The support for video editing in LR is very rudimental. For a proper video editing you have to use an appropriate program like Premiere Pro or Premiere Elements

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Jul 24, 2020 1
Community Beginner ,
Oct 08, 2020

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We know Lightroom is for photos. But why not make it more efficient for editing photos then?

Vectorscope is clearly the superior method compared to eyeballing in order to getting scientifically correct skin tones, regardless of white balance or grading. It also makes it far easier to match colours between different scenes. 

 

Yes colour checkers exist. But are they always practical? Can I run up a stage in the middle of an event, get the emcee to hold it? And then pass it around the entire floor to get perfect white balance/colours? What if I don't have a colour checker. 

 

I don't know why Adobe doesn't implement it. It's there. Just needs copying over and doing some tweaks.

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Oct 08, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 09, 2020

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If this function is so important to you please post it in the feature request forum. 

https://www.adobe.com/products/wishform.html

 

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Oct 09, 2020 1
Participant ,
Oct 09, 2020

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It's already there Axel. It's been there for quite some time, as has it been requested for Photoshop. Anyone who has learned to use them in the video applications that have them wonder why in the world this doesn't exist in image editing. Well, it Does exist in image editing, just not in Adobe. Affinity has it. There are also a couple pieces of software that have it to add to anything on screen, in case your software doesn't support it. Of course, that's limited to your monitor colorspace then, and only 8bit? And one big advantage to using scopes, is you no longer have to rely on what you see on your monitor to adjust an image. A completely colorblind person could set off a very good starting point for skin tones and white balance by just looking at the graphs. 

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Oct 09, 2020 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 09, 2020

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Adobe has slowly been taking photo and video correction tools and moving them across to each other:

  • From photo to video, Adobe took the general Lightroom/ACR user interface and added it to Premiere Pro and After Effects as the Lumetri Color panel. Video colorists were not impressed, but it made editing video color a lot easier for photographers moving into video. 
  • From video to photo, Adobe has announced that Lightroom/ACR will soon be replacing the Split Toning panel with the new Color Grading panel, which will have three color wheels for highlights, midtones, and shadows: Something unfamiliar to photo editors, but immediately familiar to video colorists, in the Adobe photo applications. 

 

As for how to edit skin tones and color balance without these tools, it is not accurate to say that eyeballing it is the only alternative in either medium. Both print and video have had ways:

  • For print, experienced color pros know the target CMYK and Lab values for skin tones and can edit a photo by the numbers, by watching those color values in the Info panel and using the color samplers. 
  • For video, experienced color pros know how to read a vectorscope for skin tones. 

Both of these methods are so old that they have been used since before editing went digital, and both ways make it possible to make good corrections even on a badly calibrated or black and white display. Each tradition taught its students that its way was the right way; that is why most photographers never thought to ask for a vectorscope and most video editors never asked for a histogram. But now that digital makes more of us cross-media, more of us are waking up to the notion that some of the best tools for our work might come from a different discipline than the one we were taught.

 

Obviously Adobe is starting to share color correction tools between photo and video applications, but slowly. If you want Adobe to implement something like a vectorscope a little faster, you could nudge them along with a feature request. Several “vectorscope” feature requests already exist on the official Photoshop/Lightroom Feedback site, you can go there and vote.

 

I came from the print side, but I can see how inadequate the histogram is, and how useful the video color monitoring tools can be. With the tools in Photoshop and Lightroom, the clipping displays and the Info panel color values are much more useful than the histogram. The color parade display from video editing is also a lot more useful than a histogram because it shows you where in the frame things are happening. I would welcome the additional and very useful dimensions of color correction info that the waveform/vectorscope could bring over from video editing.

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Oct 09, 2020 1
Community Beginner ,
Oct 10, 2020

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It's exciting to know that Adobe is starting to cross-implement features across their software. Still bummed at how waveforms and vectorscopes isn't coming in the next update, but I think it's still a great step forward. Hopefully it'll be added in the following update after this.

 

While experienced pros can look at CMYK values for skin tones and adjust them, people in the entry level won't be able to do that. That's where vectorscopes come in. Eyeballing with a vectorscope is more reliable than CMYK values, as those ratios change drastically based on lighting and skin tone. I've been struggling to find ratio "formula" but it's always a generic rule of thumb guideline of CMYK/RGB I hear, and not concrete science. 

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Oct 10, 2020 0