Backup Workflow including Edits Etc.

Report · Feb 21, 2023

Hi. Apologies in advance if this has been answered or discussed before. HAS to have been (I'd think)... but I can't find a discussion like this anywhere.

Anyway... I migrated over to LR from LR Classic about a year ago. Liked the interface better, like the cloud component, and the editing functionality is good enough for me (non professional).

What I have not figured out, and what nobody seems to discuss online (OR it's so hard to find given Adobe's tremendously frustrating naming convention between LR and LR Classic) is the best way to keep a redundant backup of everything.

Yes, I have my originals saving locally to my computer. Which does give me some comfort. But what about edits? If, for some reason, Adobe's cloud were to completely fail... theoretically I could just drop all my raw files back into LR and be 95% satisfied.

Is there any way to preserve edits as well?

Those that travel internationally and need to keep backups of photos... what are you doing? Raw files to an exgternal drive, let your LR Cloud sync get to 100%?

Thank you.

Report · Feb 21, 2023

It seems like an idea I posted a while ago I can no longer access, it was requesting the ability to have local offline backup and restore functionality (concept was also applicable to ransomeware hitting Adobe, account transfers....).

In any case, there is no built in functionality for what you request. Here are the existing workarounds:

1. Enable keep copy of local originals (you lose all edits/work, but at least have the original image)

2. On a regular basis, export the finished images.

3. Pay for a larger plan which includes Classic, and sync everything from Cloud to Classic; you will lose some meta-data doing this, but should be able to keep the super majority of image edits.

I do the first and second options; and consider that good enough. Mostly from the perspective that I sat back and thought about the requirements and came to the conclusion that after I completed the original edits/tweaks I have never gone back to an old image. Therefor what matters to me is the final image with all meta-data possible, and the original that in case of desperation I can redo an image.

The third solution, not only am I too cheap to do so, I have not felt the need for it. There are some limitations to this method, so if you want to pursue, you will need to ask someone who has kept Classic and continues using the sync process.

Tim

Report · Feb 21, 2023

Hi Timothy. Thank you for the response.

In order:

1) I do do this. So I have a copy of all my raw files on my local hard drive, and I also back that up to an external hard drive. Issue with that, as you pointed out, is that edits don't stay with the raw file.

2) I do export some of the finished images. But I don't want to have to export all of the finished images... I like working from my raw files and having them handy for edits etc. Funny, I know, but... sometimes I want to revist how I edited an image before using it for something.

3) I also don't like this soultion. I used LrC for years but am very happily completely divorced from it now. I'd rather use basically any other solution over reintegrating it into my workflow.

Report · Feb 21, 2023

In the third case, Classic is NOT part of your flow. It is only part of a worst case recovery. 🙂

I tend to shot pretty much after trips or special events. I have yet to develop a daily habit (more due to time constraints than anything). So, after I am happy with the edits, and mark them done I export the whole catalog of everything that meets my critical save criteria (2 stars and above in my case). I just let it run all weekend and do not worry about it.

Tim

Report · Feb 21, 2023

I haven't fully migrated to Lightroom yet, though I do now have all my originals in the cloud as well as in LrC. Because of that each of the two apps could be used as a backup to restore the other in the event of a major failure. But, should I do ever migrate fully and stop using LrC, I would do as you are doing and use the "Store a copy of all Originals" option. Although by no means an adequate backup in the (unlikely) catastrophic failure of the Adobe cloud, that local copy would allow me to export all files as original (i.e. including settings) for re-use in the event of having to re-import to a (restored) Adobe cloud, or into LrC, or into a non-Adobe app (though with a non-Adobe app likely most edits would be lost but all standard metadata such as keywords and location data would be retained). There's also the possibility of using the Adobe Lightroom Downloader, though if there's no access to one's own cloud account then probably the Downloader wouldn't work either.

For travelling, it would depend on internet access.....but assuming that is unreliable I would for sure be making backup copies to at least one external drive (likely 2) of any new imports. Should I then decide to start editing I'd export any changed images as DNG from the Mobile app, which would protect me from any catastrophic loss of my travel device (likely my iPad Pro). Doing that allows me to recover my work for subsequent import either into the Lightroom desktop app (when I'm home) or a replacement iPad if I'm still travelling.

Report · Feb 21, 2023

@Jim Wilde

As you know, I made the leap. 🙂

For travel, I just carry additional cards for the camera. I import the images to my laptop, and let it start syncing with Adobe. Depending on the network, this has sometimes taken a few days or longer.

I keep the card out of circulation until the images have finished syncing. This allows me to recover the import in case the laptop goes down hard before the sync is complete.

Tim

Report · Feb 21, 2023

This is actually... a brilliant strategy. For my use case I'd really probably only need two cards. Sub $100 solution while traveling.

ALSO -- I shoot on a Leica, and Leica cameras use the DNG format for raw files natively. I didn't know until right now that edits are written straight into DNG files.

Does that mean that the "copies of originals" that LR is saving onto my computer (that I'm then manually backing up onto an external harddrive) do have my edits saved? And thus, if my LR cloud were to disappears somehow, I coudl simply drop all my DNG files into LR and have it mirror where I left off?

Report · Feb 21, 2023

@SirBlunder

You would need to test that assumption. I have never cosidered that or tested it. @Jim Wilde May know off hand.

Tim

Report · Feb 21, 2023

ALSO -- I shoot on a Leica, and Leica cameras use the DNG format for raw files natively. I didn't know until right now that edits are written straight into DNG files.

Does that mean that the "copies of originals" that LR is saving onto my computer (that I'm then manually backing up onto an external harddrive) do have my edits saved? And thus, if my LR cloud were to disappears somehow, I coudl simply drop all my DNG files into LR and have it mirror where I left off?

Sadly, that's not the case. Whilst metadata (including edit instructions) CAN be written directly into the XMP, there is no mechanism within the Lightroom app to "Save Metadata to XMP" (which is a feature of Lightroom Classic). So we cannot save that metadata to the original files (Raw or DNG), hence the need to export as DNG, because in that scenario the exported file WILL have the metadata stored within it. Thus in my "travel with no internet" workflow I could edit the originals (proprietary Raw in my case) in LrMobile on my iPad, then export those to DNG format to preserve the added metadata. When I get home I could either sync the original edited iPad images to the cloud (thus the exported files wouldn't be needed) OR if I've had a disaster with my iPad I could import the exported files into Lightroom desktop instead, and the edits and other metadata would be preserved.

Report · Feb 21, 2023

Got it. Too bad.

So, could I theoretically export ALL of my DNGs (as DNGs?) and then use that as my backup?

Report · Feb 21, 2023

Got it. Too bad.

So, could I theoretically export ALL of my DNGs (as DNGs?) and then use that as my backup?

By @SirBlunder

Yes you can. As I said earlier, exporting as original from Lightroom desktop would be my solution to that hypothetical cloud meltdown scenario. That works for all file-types (using it on proprietary Raw files would result in a copy of the original file plus an XMP sidecar, all other file-types would be a copy of the original with the metatadata embedded in it), but Lightroom Mobile doesn't have that "original + settings" option, however the "export as DNG" option achieves more or less the same result.

Report · Feb 21, 2023

For travel, I just carry additional cards for the camera. I import the images to my laptop, and let it start syncing with Adobe. Depending on the network, this has sometimes taken a few days or longer.

I keep the card out of circulation until the images have finished syncing. This allows me to recover the import in case the laptop goes down hard before the sync is complete.

That would only work for me if I was sure that I'd have a reliable connection. But being a pessimist in this instance I'd want more than just the original cards, hence I plan for the worst and would take a couple of lightweight portable SSDs with me and backup to those each day.

Report · Feb 21, 2023

I figure one copy on my disk waiting to upload from the laptop, copies on two cards is enough. (I have two cards in my camera and have images write to both). That gives me three copies in total.

Then the last extra step I take, is I leave one card in the hotel, and keep one with me until the upload is synced.

There is one scenario I do NOT account for.

That is Adobe gets hit and loses everything in the cloud while I am traveling and I have already uploaded my images and wiped the cards. In that case, I lose. But I figure I will just take the trip again instead of losing sleep of that scenario.

Tim

Report · Feb 21, 2023

So you can't really protect against ALL sitautions without wearing a tinfoil hat (IMO).

I'm not worried day-to-day about the Adobe cloud failing, getting hacked, etc. The odds of that ever happening are probably close to 0%... and obviously even closer to 0% during my annual two week vacation. But the peace of mind I get by having all of my photos backed up at home (incluiding my edits, hopefully... as discussed here) is good to have knowing that ONE DAY, the cloud may fail.