Complaint about new LR upgrade releases

[nbirkett51]

I do not understand what Adobe is doing witt Lightroom.  Today, they released a new product (the cloud-based version of LR) and updates to the current version of LR.  So what do they do?

They give the new product the name of the old product.  And give a new name to the old product.

As a result, no-one knows what programme is being discussed when we talk about 'Lightroom CC'.

The new CC is a crippled piece of software which seems to have a limited function. I, along with many other users, have no interest in having all of my photos placed in the cloud.  This reduces security and increases the risk of privacy violations.  If I take 1,000 new photos (40-80GB), it will take up to 20 hours of continuous use of my Internet upload stream to get them to the cloud.  And, many of those photos will be throw-aways that have no need to be on the cloud.  That wastes my bandwidth and, in many cases, could lead to users being forced to pay for additional bandwidth.  And, the functionality offered by the new CC are also very limited compared to the previous CC.

Because of the bizzare naming convention, many people will upgrade to the new CC without realizing that are are getting a new software package with limits.  This is confusing to users.

The name switch also leaves the impression for new users that the 'Classic' is 'old stuff' which is less powerful and useful than the new CC (which is far from the truth).  It also leaves the impression that it may not continue to be supported by Adobe (despite the comments today that it will be develop in parallel).  How long before the Classic version gets dropped from the line-up?

I will be looking closely at alternatives such as Capture One and DxO Optics Pro.

At a minimum, Adobe should have retained the name 'Lightroom CC' for the update of the current product and named the new one something like 'Lightroom web' or 'Lightroom Lite'.

I urge Adobe to look closely at the confusion this is causing.  And, at the anger I am seeing in users who object strongly to the new CC's cloud-based model.

[nbirkett51]

No responses yet from Tom on his post   I'm sure he is having a busy day.  Given the near universally negative responses that I am seeing on the web to the new cloud-based LR offerings, I'm sure he is scrambling.  Adobe needs to respond to this opposition by doing more than posting platitudes and advertising non-messages.

• They could modify their web pages to make 'Classic' more prominent (which might help reassure users that it isn't a terminal product).
• They could add a feature to the new LR CC to give users control over what photos get uploaded to the cloud.  I know that this would make it more similar to Classic (although the uploads would be RAW, not hi-res previews).  Maybe that should be considered and Classic made the primary LR product at this stage of their development cycle
• Modify the description of the Photography 'plans' to list LR Classic as part of the package (right now, Classic isn't mentioned in any of the plans on the main LR page)
• Explain to users how they can implement Tom's suggestion in his post where he says: We clearly understand that there are situations where a customer would not want all of their images uploaded to Creative Cloud so let’s talk about those situations and how we can address them
• Talk openly and honestly about future plans for LR and PS.  There is a significant trust issue at present since many users see Adobe as back-tracking on a promise to keep a perpetual license version of LR available.  I know that, technically, there wasn't a clear promise to keep it available for all time.  But, the perception was that Adobe had made such a commitment.  Many users no longer trust Adobe's promise that Classic will continue into the future.  Adobe needs to address that trust issue more effectively than with fancy marketing.

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

nbirkett51  wrote

No responses yet from Tom on his post   I'm sure he is having a busy day.

The Management Team, including Tom, are all at the Adobe Max conference this week. They should be back in the office soon though, and hopefully will be able to share more information.

[nbirkett51]

Sorry - my comment was directed at a posting from yesterday afternoon by ProDesignTools which said:

Great. Stay tuned; moments ago I just talked with Tom at MAX, and he said he would be getting back to the post to address questions as soon as he was able.

I was just reporting the he hadn't yet been able to reply.  I do understand that things are busy. But, the complaints and confusion over the new LR release does need attention.

[nbirkett51]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Victoria+Bampton+LR+Queen  wrote

nbirkett51   wrote

No responses yet from Tom on his post   I'm sure he is having a busy day.

The Management Team, including Tom, are all at the Adobe Max conference this week. They should be back in the office soon though, and hopefully will be able to share more information.

We are now November 2, nearly two weeks after we were told that Tom would be responding to comments on his blog post.  But, there have been no response from him or Adobe.  The user posted comments to his blog entry are nearly all negative.

• Many complaints about the enforced subscription model.
• Many complaints about the enforced cloud uploading with the new LR CC.
• Many complaints about the naming decisions and the confusion it has caused.
• Many complaints about the confusing advertising on Adobe's web site, and the difficulty they created in finding the stand-alone Lightroom in the past and the lack of highlighting of LR Classic on the main pages.

And, no response from Adobe.

[99jon]

Many complaints about the enforced subscription model.

Not sure what you expect to hear. It was the same when Adobe stopped supporting CS6. How do you think loyal subscribers would feel if you could simply get all the new tools for £110 or $150?

Many complaints about the enforced cloud uploading with the new LR CC.

Adobe rushed out the Lr Classic 7.0.1 update to correct this.

Many complaints about the naming decisions and the confusion it has caused.

It will take time for understanding to spread but Lr CC will become synonymous with the complete suite of desktop and mobile apps comprising the eco system, with automatic backup storage. For those wanting a traditional catalog based on files & folders Lr Classic will continue to meet these needs while giving control over what photos (if any) are added to the could via synchronized collections.

Many complaints about the confusing advertising on Adobe's web site, and the difficulty they created in finding the stand-alone Lightroom in the past and the lack of highlighting of LR Classic on the main pages.

Lr Classic is available within two of the Photography Plans. For the time being a stand-alone perpetual version of Lr6 can still be purchased from the link below. On-line resellers such as Bestbuy, Amazon (£110 in UK), Costco etc. appear to still have stocks.

Shopping Cart

[nbirkett51]

This was my summary of the postings, not my personal view of what issue I consider important.  My main point is the lack of response from Tom and Adobe to these complaints.

99jon  wrote

Many complaints about the enforced subscription model.

Not sure what you expect to hear. It was the same when Adobe stopped supporting CS6. How do you think loyal subscribers would feel if you could simply get all the new tools for £110 or $150?

I expected a response from Tom about the many complaints that have been made.  Personally, I am fine with the subscription model but many people aren't.  And, there are legitimate complaints that, in the past, Adobe 'hid' the option to pay a one-time fee so that that argument that customer weren't buying it is spurious.

I do have very strong objections to forced use of cloud storage and the associated high costs that this will create to users.

Many complaints about the enforced cloud uploading with the new LR CC.

Adobe rushed out the Lr Classic 7.0.1 update to correct this.

I'm not talking about Classic.  I am talking about the new LR CC which, from everything that I have seen, still requires that you update your entire library to the cloud.

Many complaints about the naming decisions and the confusion it has caused.

It will take time for understanding to spread but Lr CC will become synonymous with the complete suite of desktop and mobile apps comprising the eco system, with automatic backup storage. For those wanting a traditional catalog based on files & folders Lr Classic will continue to meet these needs while giving control over what photos (if any) are added to the could via synchronized collections.

As established users, we will all adapt.  But, new users coming to Adobe's Lightroom page will see a big ad for Lightroom CC and assume that this is the same product as last year.  They will not be aware of the nuances of CC vs Classic, etc.  And since Adobe doesn't highlight the Classic on their main page, new users will get the cloud-based CC by default.

It is also incorrect to refer to the current cloud system as providing 'back-up' of your photographs.  LR CC clearly sees the cloud storage as the primary image location since the emphasis the ability to access the cloud images from multiple platforms - not a feature of a back-up service.

Many complaints about the confusing advertising on Adobe's web site, and the difficulty they created in finding the stand-alone Lightroom in the past and the lack of highlighting of LR Classic on the main pages.

Lr Classic is available within two of the Photography Plans. For the time being a stand-alone perpetual version of Lr6 can still be purchased from the link below. On-line resellers such as Bestbuy, Amazon (£110 in UK), Costco etc. appear to still have stocks.

Part of this point is not whether you can now buy the stand-alone version.  Rather, the complaints are about Adobe's business practices in the past (which are carrying over some what now).  Adobe made it nearly impossible for users to find the standalone version of Lightroom on their web site.  They then turn around and say 'users over-whelmingly bought the subscription version'.  Well, if user couldn't find how to order the stand-alone version, you can not use their purchasing patterns as evidence that they preferred the subscription model.  That is just bad logic.

Adobe is following a similar process with Classic.  Yes, it is available in two packages.  But, Classic does not appear as a major topic on their main Lightroom page.  Have a look at this page: Adobe Creative Cloud Photography plan | Professional photo editing software  It says that the Photography plans include the new Lightroom CC and Photoshop CC, with no mention of Classic.  None of the glossy graphics relates to Classic.  There is line which mentions that the plan includes Classic but it gives no details. And the page it links to gives some information but has a large box about  the cloud version being the 'future of photography'.

[99jon]

It says that the Photography plans include the new Lightroom CC and Photoshop CC, with no mention of Classic.

I agree on your point and others have mentioned it also. I think Lr Classic should be more prominent than Photoshop within the Photography plan. Especially as Adobe continues to develop, improve and add new features to Classic.

[David Illig]

No, there haven't been many complaints about the subscription model. A few people whining loudly can easily sound like a mob. There have been relatively few complaints from amateur users; others are busy getting on with their work and their lives.

Enforced cloud uploading with Lightroom CC!? That shows that you don't get it at all. That's like complaining that the maker of your car requires you to have tires on it in order to drive it. The cloud is what Lightroom CC is about! If you don't like it, stick with Lightroom Classic CC. The Director of Adobe Photography stated explicitly in this recent interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaBeeBUZvAg that Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic CC.

[nbirkett51]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/David+Illig  wrote

No, there haven't been many complaints about the subscription model. A few people whining loudly can easily sound like a mob. There have been relatively few complaints from amateur users; others are busy getting on with their work and their lives.

Enforced cloud uploading with Lightroom CC!? That shows that you don't get it at all. That's like complaining that the maker of your car requires you to have tires on it in order to drive it. The cloud is what Lightroom CC is about! If you don't like it, stick with Lightroom Classic CC. The Director of Adobe Photography stated explicitly in this recent interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaBeeBUZvAg that Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic CC.

I do get it - Use Classic if you don't want to be forced to upload raw files to the cloud.  But, your car analogy is a poor one.

The problem is that Adobe is focusing and promoting the cloud-based LR CC and that programme is requiring you to upload either everything or nothing.  If you upload, that can add substantial costs (for cloud space rental that it is not needed with local storage).  From what I have read, Classic only can upload previews of images, not the raw files.  So, if you want to be able to upload 'some' raw images, you have to use the cloud-based LR and that means uploading everything.  Adobe could fix this whole debate by releasing a new variant of the cloud-based LR CC that allowed users to choose which images to upload.  Tom said that they recognized that people may not want to upload everything and this would be made possible in the future. Why don't they fix this now?

There is also considerable suspicion that Adobe has planned to drop Classic in the near term (2-3 years) and is misleading people with their current announcements.  Their history with the standalone LR version (no promotion of the product, 'hiding' the purchase option, using the phrase 'available indefinitely'), combined with the low key placement of Classic on their web pages and the re-naming, has led to a lack of trust of Adobe,  Their current approach is not doing anything to change this.

My comment about Tom's lack of response to his blog is another sign of this - talk openly to people and acknowledge the legitimacy of their concerns.  Then, maybe opinions will start to change.  Instead, legitimate comments and concerns are being ignored. Or worse.

[David Illig]

You flat don't get it about these two applications, which are separate and not necessarily meant to be used together.

No, there haven't been many complaints about the subscription model. A few people whining loudly can easily sound like a mob. There have been relatively few complaints from amateur users; others are busy getting on with their work and their lives.

Enforced cloud uploading with Lightroom CC!? There's proof that you don't get it at all. That's like complaining that the maker of your car requires you to have tires on it in order to drive it. The cloud is what Lightroom CC is about! If you don't like it, don't use it. Tom Hogarty, director of product management for Adobe Photography stated explicitly in this recent interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaBeeBUZvAg that Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic CC are not meant to be used together. "It's a different team..." "...So one thing I would caution is the way we designed the products, Lightroom Classic and Lightroom CC, is that they're really... You should pick one or the other."

Your posts represent my first at-the-source look at how fake news begins.

[nbirkett51]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/David+Illig  wrote

You flat don't get it about these two applications, which are separate and not necessarily meant to be used together.

No, there haven't been many complaints about the subscription model. A few people whining loudly can easily sound like a mob. There have been relatively few complaints from amateur users; others are busy getting on with their work and their lives.

Enforced cloud uploading with Lightroom CC!? There's proof that you don't get it at all. That's like complaining that the maker of your car requires you to have tires on it in order to drive it. The cloud is what Lightroom CC is about! If you don't like it, don't use it. Tom Hogarty, director of product management for Adobe Photography stated explicitly in this recent interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaBeeBUZvAg that Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic CC are not meant to be used together. "It's a different team..." "...So one thing I would caution is the way we designed the products, Lightroom Classic and Lightroom CC, is that they're really... You should pick one or the other."

Your posts represent my first at-the-source look at how fake news begins.

You are over-stepping the bounds of appropriate debate in your last comment.  I ask that you edit it out.  I am not creating 'fake news' - that is just an attempt to deny the evidence and arguments against Adobe.  On the other hand, maybe I sholud be flattered that you think my post could start a 'fake news' meme.

Are you a member of forums such as 'dpreview' or 'Fred Miranda'?  Have you read the comments to Tom's blog post that was cited above?  There are major complaints about the subscription model.  It is also a common view in politics (and elsewhere) that every complaint represents a large number (100 or more) people who share the view but don't write.  Maybe Adobe should do a survey to find out what people think?

In any event, you are completely mis-representing my personal view of the subscription model. As I state very clearly (early in this thread), I am NOT opposed to the subscription model for software.  In fact, I use it for my own Adobe products.

I am only raising concerns about the subscription model because of the message it sends about Adobe's approach to customers and to explain part of the lack of trust that many people have with Adobe.

I repeat - I understand completely that the new cloud-based LR CC and LR Classic are different software packages.  I also understand that you would not normally want to use both of them (although there are times when you might, given the inability of Classic to upload Raw files to the cloud).  But, if you look at Adobe's web pages and advertising, it is impossible to make the case that they are treating the two products equally.  Their own slogan states the the cloud-based LR is the 'future of photography'.  That at least make credible the suggestion that they are being disingenuous in saying that Classic has a long life ahead of it.

If you use the cloud based LR, you must upload all photos to the Adobe cloud.  Do you disagree with the statement?  It is clear from Tom's blog post and other information.  So, if you select the cloud-based LR, you will be 'forced' to upload all photos and have no control over which ones to upload.  Again, a clear statement of 'true' fact.  If you have a large photo library (Tom talks about someone having 8TB of images in his blog), your cloud rental costs will be $70/month.  Another 'true' fact based on the latest Adobe pricing information I have seen. So, the monthly cost to use the cloud-based LR will be $90, rather than the stated $10/month for the plan. Again, a 'true' fact.

[David Illig]

...maybe I sholud be flattered that you think my post could start a 'fake news' meme.

No, you didn't start it. You're just one of the claque, running about in a panic, ranting and raving.

I am only raising concerns about the subscription model because of the message it sends about Adobe's approach to customers and to explain part of the lack of trust that many people have with Adobe.

I get four newspapers, several magazines, Internet service, and cable TV through subscription schemes. What message does that send about the publishers and providers?

If you use the cloud based LR, you must upload all photos to the Adobe cloud.  Do you disagree with the statement?

The statement is irrelevant because one is not forced to use Lightroom CC; Lightroom Classic CC does not require the cloud.

So, if you select the cloud-based LR, you will be 'forced' to upload all photos and have no control over which ones to upload.

You are complaining because a product is doing exactly what it was meant to do. Adobe have made that abundantly clear. If you don't like it, don't use it. Lightroom CC comes with Lightroom Classic CC at no additional cost. But don't conflate the two. Different products, different purposes.

If you have a large photo library... your cloud rental costs will be $70/month.

I have found that if I drive more I have to buy more petrol. If you don't want to pay for additional cloud services don't use Lightroom CC.

[holderone]

I too am disappointed about the pricing model as I do want to use a web based system but the pricing model is outrageou. I pay £110 per year for the traditional CC but would pay £1200 per year for the newer online version. I think in this day and age that is not only prohibitive to non professionals but it is simply out of kilter with other cloud based services with similar storage capacity.

So the petrol analogy doesn’t work as the additional miles are not proportional in terms of costs.

Such a a shame that Adobe is restricting the use of their new product to professionals or the rich.