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Question

Color Management Issue Photoshop

Forum|Forum|2 years ago
January 8, 2024
2 replies
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I have a very peculiar color managment issue I thought might be intersting to discuss, I am thankful for all the intel I may get.

I recently calibrated my monitors, a BenQ SW270C and A BenQ 2700 with my SpyderX5.

Afterwards the display of the same image in different applications was varied.

Whilst my Adobe RGB Masterfiles looked flat in Photoshop their sRGB Files (no color manegment saved) looked as saturated as they where supposed to in PS and Firefox. In Chrome I had to force the monitor profile to make them appear as intended. However I was bummed out by the fact that there was a difference between the master file and the saved sRGB export which never had been distinguishable before I did the monitor calibration.

To wipe the slate clean I simply deleted the monitor profiles. Now the problems have sort of reversed. Without the monitor profile Photoshop seems to oversaturate my sRGB export files whilst the Windows Preview, Firefox and Chrome show the image the same and alike what Photoshop shows my masterfiles to look like. Interestingly enough, when I export one of my masterfiles into sRGB and then open the file in photoshop the colors again look oversatureated. I wonder how to fix this so that at least all the files look the same again for starters.

Slowly, I am starting to confuse what the files are supposed to look like in the first place.

Oh, I use PS 25.0.0 and Win10.

Windows

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c.pfaffenbichler

Community Expert

Just to make sure: What are the Edit > Color Settings?

Nicolas Alexander OttoAuthor

Known Participant

Here you go, I think this is the correct managment for editing in Adobe RGB on Wide Gamut Screen and then export in sRGB later.

davescm

Community Expert

Change RGB to 'Preserve embedded profiles' and check Missing Profiles 'Ask when opening' that way you will get a warning if you download an image from your website with no profile embedded.

That does not change any of the advice given earlier though

Dave

D Fosse

Community Expert

I suspect the Adobe RGB file displayed in Photoshop, which you describe as "flat", is in fact the correct representation.

Everything else can be explained by missing color management on a wide gamut monitor which the SW270 is.

On a wide gamut monitor without color management, sRGB will be oversaturated. That part is normal. It's also normal that the same thing happens if you delete you monitor profile, because it then gets replaced by sRGB. That's the wrong profile for that monitor. Same result.

Never, ever, save a file without an embedded profile. Never.

But that's what you did. In that case Firefox will, at default settings, display without any color management at all - oversaturated.

To sum up: when you have a wide gamut monitor, you must have full color management at all times. You must embed the profile, you must have a valid and correct monitor profile - and you can only use applications that have full color management support. That's the long and short of it.

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(At first I thought this was the usual buggy BenQ software - because it is, and has been for a long time, unless they've fixed it recently. There's been a flood of reports of problems with the BenQ software over many years. I've also noticed that Spyders have a somewhat poor reputation, but I'm not so sure about the validity of that. I take that with a grain of salt. I don't have any direct experience with either.

Anyway, when I read closer, it occurred to me that this all sounds like expected behavior. You just mistakenly assume that the oversaturated version is how it should be. But I don't think so.)

Nicolas Alexander OttoAuthor

Known Participant

"On a wide gamut monitor without color management, sRGB will be oversaturated. That part is normal. It's also normal that the same thing happens if you delete you monitor profile, because it then gets replaced by sRGB. That's the wrong profile for that monitor. Same result."

Well, both monitors are currently set to Adobe RGB. And other than Photoshop the sRGB Files look correct now (or at least like the Adobe RGB Files does in PS), which puzzles me.

"Never, ever, save a file without an embedded profile. Never."

I remeber doing that because if I did not all apps and browsers would display the colors differently compared to my Photoshop Masterfile or the sRGB in PS - my assumption was because they don't have the monitorprofile I used to edit it, so they look different in say Instagram.

"But that's what you did. In that case Firefox will, at default settings, display without any color management at all - oversaturated."

Currently, after deleting the profiles the color display of Firefox does match the Adobe RGB masterfile, which is also something that really puzzles me.

"To sum up: when you have a wide gamut monitor, you must have full color management at all times. You must embed the profile, you must have a valid and correct monitor profile - and you can only use applications that have full color management support. That's the long and short of it."

Well, before I re-calibrated my monitor (I simply let it slide for half a year) everything worked just fine the way I rolled. Meaning using monitor profiles editing in Adobe and outputting in "Internet Strandard sRGB" via "save for web" without color managment - as previously mentioned when compared to my phone or even my latop the colors looked alike without color managment but with the colormanagment selecting "Screen Colors" it looked odd and washed out.

"(At first I thought this was the usual buggy BenQ software - because it is, and has been for a long time, unless they've fixed it recently. There's been a flood of reports of problems with the BenQ software over many years. I've also noticed that Spyders have a somewhat poor reputation, but I'm not so sure about the validity of that. I take that with a grain of salt. I don't have any direct experience with either.

Anyway, when I read closer, it occurred to me that this all sounds like expected behavior. You just mistakenly assume that the oversaturated version is how it should be. But I don't think so.)"

Yeah the problem is that at this point I don't really know what it is supposed to look like. I try to make it look like the files do on my other display devices like my phone essentially because I figured I never complained about colors there so yeah.

Now my question is what to do. I will recalibrate my screens again I guess and see what happenes. Because as it is now it's really weird and I woulnd't know what to rely on.

davescm

Community Expert

I found a video which seems to at least level the playing field: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITiV8Q0CiFY

When I do this all the outputs essentially look the same. However this goes against all that I have ever done in Photoshop thus far and everything that you guys have suggested. I would assume that now everything is essentially looking like it should on your monitor and software - but there would be no way to tell what it looks like on somebody elses output device.

And thus far I have always used Adobe 1998 as a working space and sRGB as output. Funnily enough I still get the desired color when I export with "Screen Profile" instead of "Document Profile". I wonder why that is, I mean shouldn't Photoshop automatically load the screen profile? I mean why can I select the monitor profile in the color managment tab to begin with instead of Adobe 1998 if the colormanagment should be handled in the background by photoshop getting the monitor profile from the OS? Could it be that simply PS does not get the correct Monitor Profile after I recalibrated my monitor and thus Adobe 1998 looks off?

I also updated my graphics card drivers which sadly did not fix the issue. Next is deleting all the profiles and photoshop and then start over.

I was tempted to stop that video as soon as the presenter got to change colour settings for RGB to Monitor RGB Display . That turns off colour management and is about the worst advice that could be given. It guarantees that you are now working in a closed system and you will be adjusting images to your uncompensated monitor and they will look wrong elswhere.

I thought it couldn't get worse but then she goes on to tell people to change proof settings to Monitor colour which also defeats colour management.

Then she tells people to uncheck convert to sRGB when exporting. That means images that she creates in her Monitor profile are being exported with no profile and will look incorrect in every browser out there apart from her own.

It is the worst advice video I have seen for a long time. Basically it is saying, despite the ICC developing a worldwide colour management system that allows people to confidently exchange images and get correct colour across different studios, print houses etc and that system being supported in Photoshop, Lightroom, InDesign, browsers etc - turn all that off.

In case anyone else comes across this thread - don't bother watching that video - it should be removed.

Dave

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