How to turn off all colour management?

[ShawClan]

I need to have Photoshop show me an image without any colour management at all.

However, no matter what settings I try the image in Photoshop always looks different to the same image opened in a program that is not ICC complient.

This is causing me serious problems.

What do I need to do to turn off all ICC management?

[Chris Cox]

Gator - yeah, it's very much like the printing industry.

They even have their own pudits teaching the evils of any technology created outside their industry (without fully understanding what they are teaching against, of course).

[ShawClan]

(ROFL)

And still you can't describe a valid ICC based DI workflow...

I have taken this discussion up with Lars - I am actually very interested in

the possibilities for ICC profiles, but with understanding as to what DI is

all about.

Photoshop is not DI.

I've not bothered saying this before, but ICC profiles we have generated are

being used on Photoshop on some major film projects right now. Their use is

to match Photoshop in to the DI workflow already in use - where Photoshop is

doing 'some' frame based work.

I have tried really hard to explain what I am looking to do, but as is often

the problem with manufacturers there has been a total lack of understanding

of the real world.

I seriously thank those that pointed out the bug in Photoshop that was

causing the initial problem - and I hope it gets fixed soon.

Other than that this discussion has been an interesting diversion, and a bit

of fun, but it's over now.

TTFN

Shaw Clan

You don't have to be mad to live here...

But it helps.

[Chris Cox]

Or we understand far more than you think, and have trouble getting past the "but we don't do it that way" and "not invented here" syndromes.

What you're doing is actually relatively simple, and could use Photoshop more extensively.

But your understanding of the technologies seems to be lacking -- so I'm having trouble explaining even the basic concepts, much less a workflow.

[gator soup]

Gator - yeah, it's very much like the printing industry.

Thanks, Chris, I thought I had set up a decent analogy to make my point to the OP.

But you certainly have a way of holding your own in these conversations — if I only had a bigger brain (nah, I'll stick with my common sense)...

[Chris Cox]

Let me try to explain further - it may help with understanding as it is

obvious this forum has little idea of the world of advance colour management

for DI workflows, which is understandable.

You have that entirely backwards.

Photoshop is much more advanced than the 1980s era workflow that you are discussing.

Your workflow could be more accurate, more stable, and much more predictable if you learned about advances in color management made since the 1990s.

[ShawClan]

LOL

Sorry, you really don't understand.

I'd ask why AE has only just had 3D LUT capability added???

I understand the capabilities of ICC profiles well - as can be seen with the

development of Spaceman ICC.

What I didn't understand was the chaotic and somewhat random application of

ICC profiles within Photoshop, which I now have a handle on thanks to the

sensible answers from this forum.

I don't think we can take this conversation any further.

Steve

Steve Shaw

LIGHT ILLUSION

steve@lightillusion.com

+44 (0)7765 400 908

www.lightillusion.com

Skype: shaw.clan

LUTs, CUBEs + GAMMA CURVEs

[Chris Cox]

AE added the ability to use 3D LUTs as adjustments because they need to support legacy adjustments and "calibrations" from the film industry.  There is some value in old LUTs, just as there is value in vintage film stock and VHS recordings.

Photoshop's use of ICC profiles is neither chaotic or random.  You perceive it as chaotic or random because you are lacking some basic understanding of the systems.  Kind of how foreign scripts and language looks like gibberish until you learn some basics.

I just feel that it's a disservice to promote outdated and error prone methodologies such as you use, and feel it better serves the community to inform you that there are more accurate, more standardized, better integrated (from a workflow standpoint), and better supported methods available.

But whether you stick with the old technology you know and can sorta make work sometimes, or learn new technologies that do work more reliably - that is your choice.

[bret_linford]

Please don't tell Chris Cox 'he needs to understand' anything regarding Photoshop. You may want to look at the Photoshop 'Credits' screen...

[bret_linford]

bret_linford wrote:

Please don't tell Chris Cox 'he needs to understand' anything regarding Photoshop. You may want to look at the Photoshop 'Credits' screen...

Sorry, this was meant for another post. But, it's true regardless... 😉

[Chris Cox]

I have no display profile active obviously as I'm using external

calibration.

That means that you aren't calibrated at all.

You're relying on some custom setup that sort of calibrates the display, but you haven't told applications or the OS what that calibration might be.  To do that, you specify the profile for the display.

[gator soup]

Andrew Rodney (wrote here previously):

since PS5, the architecture has been such that Photoshop always makes some assumption about the numbers for previewing and conversions using ICC profiles. You can try and turn it off but it's always looking for a display profile for previews along with an embedded profile in a document. Even if you strip out the profile, Photoshop is still going to make an (assumption) about the numbers, again based on some ICC profile.

In any case, I would pay very close attention to what Chris Cox added until you completely understand what he is saying.

But I am curious, how you are running Photoshop with no monitor profile selected in Photoshop?

What profile is listed under "Monitor RGB" in Photoshop> Color Settings> Working Spaces> RGB? (click on the RGB and you should see the drop menu as pictured here):

Whatever Photoshop is using for Monitor RGB is the profile Photoshop is Applying/Assigning/Assuming to your file (for all practical purposes) when you don't color manage your file.

Monitor RGB profile there also is the profile Photoshop displays through (ie, Source Profile to Monitor Profile).

This is the same profile Photoshop Applies/Assumes/Assigns when you View> Proof Setup: Monitor RGB

[gator soup]

I believe the key here is to understand what monitor profile your target app defaults to, and in Photoshop: Edit> Convert to (target) Profile.

With a good monitor profile, in Photoshop, Soft Proof it by View> Proof Set Up> Custom> Device to Simulate: Target icc profile

PS:

I should add, I am not recommending to set Monitor RGB as Working RGB in my above screen shot — I am only pointing out how to verify what monitor profile Photoshop is using.

[p_d_f]

What happens when you generate an ICC profile from your "high end" calibration, and then use that profile - as your RGB working space. That would be the easiest way to effectively send RGB directly to the screen without any outside intervention.