How to use the crop tool without losing pixels?

[Guest]

5616x3774   /   72 res is what CS5 says my Canon 5d2 large jpeg is out of camera.

Can I use the crop too to make a 20"x24" image and keep all those or most of those pixels?

Do I leave the resolution box blank?

The lab I send the file to for the print, says they want 300 res files (just to complicate thing a bit more)

Thanks!

[Guest]

Fiddle with it in Image/image size.  Have the resample box checked and unchecked and watch the figures change as you change either dimension or resolution.

Remember if you resample it changes all the pixels and theoritcally can affect sharpness.

[Guest]

Sorry Curt, that did not help. I don't want to be "fiddling" with it. I want precision.  I think setting 20 x 24 in the crop tool is the way to go, I'm just not clear on anything else, as the crop tool is not that intuitive.

[Guest]

My suggestion is the only way to see interrelationship between dimension & resolution.  THe crop tool has to obey the same laws.

[conroy]

The lab says they want a 300 ppi image. Did you try 24", 20" and 300 ppi in the fields of the Crop Tool and find the result to be unsatisfactory? If so, then in what way was the result unsatisfactory?

[charles badland]

Can I use the crop too to make a 20"x24" image and keep all those or most of those pixels?

No. Your aspect ratio is about 2:3

You could make a 20" x 30" print, but to go 20" x 24" you'll have to make cropping choices.

The lab I send the file to for the print, says they want 300 res files

Your file will fall short of that (about 190 PPI without resample). So you will have to upsample (add pixels) if you want it to be 300 ppi and crop (subtract pixels! ) if you want a 20" x 24" print.

As stated above, both can be done in one swell foop with the Crop Tool set to 20" x 24" at 300 ppi

...the crop tool is not that intuitive

Just wait until you ugrade to CS6!

[Guest]

thanks Conroy/ Charles/ JJ. this is helping.

Ok so best thing then is to use the crop tool. put in 20x24. I think I have to do that, because of those basic print sizes I'm offering.

But do I need to put 300 in the res field.  Does the print lab really need that to be done?

What if I just left it blank or put in 72 which is what the Canon file is out of camera? Would that create a better final image? or not?

[JJMack · Accepted solution]

To tell the truth I don't use the crop tool. I use the marquee tool, image crop and image size.  If you use the crop tool and fill in a resolution field in the crop tool the crop tool does all three operation including resampling the resulting crop to the resolution you entered. Adobe has also re-implemented the crop tool in CS6 which has many up in arms. Didn't bother me at all.

IMO if you use the crop tool its best to leave the resolution field empty. That way the crop will  not be resample.  You can enter width 24 height 20 or width 6 height 5 there actually the same aspect ratio as is 12:10

After you do the crop you can use Image Size. In the dialog un-check resample set the print width to 24. You will see Photoshop set the height to 20 and set the DPI to some value. If the DPI value fall below what you want check resample set in the resolution you want and the interpolation method to use then click OK.

[conroy]

kevin4545 wrote:

But do I need to put 300 in the res field.  Does the print lab really need that to be done?

The lab specifically asked for 300 ppi. Either do it or, if you think they don't need it or they should have specified something else (72 ppi, for example, as you seem to suspect), then contact the lab and remove doubt before proceeding.

What if I just left it blank or put in 72 which is what the Canon file is out of camera? Would that create a better final image? or not?

That would produce an image with fewer than 1/16th of the number of pixels in a 300 ppi image of the same physical size and look extremely blocky when printed, so I don't think it would create a better image.

[Guest]

thnaks JJ/ Conroy.

Why does not Canon just create the files at 300 which so many printers like instead of 72?

[Noel Carboni]

The short answer is that there is simply no one number that works for everyone.

This is basic resolution and ratio mechanics.  Just something you and everyone else have to deal with. 

I suggest you set your image size without resampling, then crop to the proper ratio.  Assuming you're using a modern camera and not making big prints your resolution will likely be more than 300 ppi, which is noticeable (I found I could spot differences up to about 600 ppi).

-Noel

[JJMack]

72 is just a setting.  I shoot Canon 20D 1D2 and 1D4 RAW and have ACR convert the raw file into RGB image at the Adobe default setting 240 DPI and that setting can be changed in ACR and be remembered by ACR.  I do not know what DPI canon cameras set into the jpeg files they write.

[Noel Carboni]

What does the ppi matter anyway, until you turn the thing into a work product?

Learn to think in pixels first and foremost, then set the inches when you print.

-Noel

[conroy]

The printing lab specified Kevin's image file must be at 300 ppi. That's the reason I thought the ppi is important.

[Noel Carboni]

I was speaking more to the question about why Canon doesn't set the ppi in the captured image.

But what are the chances the lab may have said ''300 or higher''?

-Noel

[conroy]

"The chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one," he said.

"The chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one - but still they

come!"

Jeff Wayne - The War of the Worlds Soundtrack

[Noel Carboni]

Love that album.

As I'm about to take a walk, the line ''...but oh, the sweetness of the air'' just came to mind.

-Noel

[conroy]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/02/07/mars-rover-spots-metallic-arm_n_2637990.html

[Guest]

thanks Noel and JJ.  The lab, said 300 or more I think.

But:

why do Canon images come out at 72? just a random decision by Canon, but does not matter?

"I suggest you set your image size without resampling, then crop to the proper ratio.  Assuming you're using a modern camera and not making big prints your resolution will likely be more than 300 ppi, which is noticeable (I found I could spot differences up to about 600 ppi)."

Noel, a 20x24 is a big print.

But what do you mean set without resampling? the easist method is to put 20 and 24 in the crop tools fields. Leave resolution blank, but wont the tool then resample the image?

[Guest]

See post #1.

[conroy]

kevin4545 wrote:

Leave resolution blank, but wont the tool then resample the image?

Try it and see !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JJMack]

kevin4545 wrote:

But what do you mean set without resampling? the easist method is to put 20 and 24 in the crop tools fields. Leave resolution blank, but wont the tool then resample the image?

No it will not resample. Crop will set the DPI so the cropped image will print 20x24.  

Try using menu Image Size with Resample NOT Checked.

You will see the top Pixel section is grayed out and can not be changed. Pixels will not be changed.

In the center print size section you will see the the width, height and Resolution are all linked they are not independent. Change one and the other two will be change. If you change 20 to 10  you will see 24 be changed to 12 and see the DPI resolution increase.  Change the DPI to some value you will see both the width and hight change in size and retait the 5:6 aspect ratio.

[Guest]

JJ, if crop tool does not resample, then that's the perfet solution.  I can drag the new crop I want.

[Guest]

I think what JJ is saying is you first have to set those options in Image/image size for it to apply to crop tool.

[Guest]

JJ you agree with Curt? I don't think image size controls the crop tool???